Ep. 60 - Guilty Pleasures! vol. 4

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[0:00] J.J.: I have a question, and I love asking you questions because they always seem to just... People should know by now. They never work out. I'm never getting any of the answers I'm looking for. The answer's blue. You and I, we are people of the world. We have traveled a lot, but how often have you moved? Have you moved a lot?

[0:32] Olaf: The answer to your question is yes, I have moved a lot. So yes, I answered your question. However, I feel like you're wanting a little bit more than that. I learned as I was moving through my life that the smaller the footprint I had, the easier it was to move. So it was a couple of suitcases and a backpack when I moved to college and then back home, but then I would travel and lived in different states and whatnot. I moved with my brother at one point to California. When I moved to New York, it was suitcases and a backpack. Whatever I can fit in is what I'm taking. And I've moved my whole life, never staying anywhere more than two, maybe three years. I would say for probably around 20 years, I was moving every year, but I was just thinking about that today because I'm getting ready to move again, but at least where I am currently recording from, you know, I was here for a couple of years, which is refreshing knowing that I'm not moving again.

[1:26] J.J.: And you're not moving out of state, like you're just moving...

[1:28] Olaf: No, no, no. I'm just moving to a different space and my podcast area will have a drastic upgrade, I think.

[1:36] J.J.: Yeah, that's exciting.

[1:37] Olaf: That is exciting. I'm looking forward to that. But I was just thinking, I know I've moved a lot and I know you've been around and you've certainly traveled a lot, but I wasn't sure exactly how often you've actually moved. But anyway, that's not what we're here to talk about.

[1:51] J.J.: No, no, not, not even close, not even close. I can't even think of a really cool, clever way to segue into what we're going to talk about.

[1:59] Olaf: I mean, some people might really enjoy moving. They might even consider it a guilty pleasure.

[2:06] J.J.: Which brings us to today's topic, more guilty pleasures. So let's not waste any more time. Let's get back to the movie theater where we talk about some more guilty pleasures.

[2:34] Olaf: Not bad, not bad. That was, I mean, it's a stretch. I don't know if anybody would consider that a guilty pleasure moving, but hey, that's what we had to work with. So we'll take it.

[2:44] J.J.: Yeah. Well, guys, we are here. It's Olaf.

[2:47] J.J.: It's JJ. We are in the theater once again. And this time around, we are back talking about one of our favorites. I really enjoy dredging up these guilty pleasure movies.

[2:58] Olaf: So do I. Sometimes I feel like we don't talk about it enough. And then there's a thought where I think, well, maybe we talk about it just enough so people will miss the topic. So when we bring it back around, they're excited about it because I get excited when I see it on the calendar, like, oh, this is what we're going to be hitting.

[3:14] J.J.: Yeah, because I'm ready. We get to talk about movies that are very special to us, that we just love to watch, no matter what anybody else thinks.

[3:23] Olaf: I feel like then I am going to be doing really well today with the three movies that I've picked to talk about.

[3:31] J.J.: Off the top of my head, I know one of them that you're talking about, and I would question whether it is a guilty pleasure or not.

[3:37] Olaf: OK, you know, we'll see.

[3:39] J.J.: Well, I'm definitely going to be throwing some heavy shade at all of these movies, but I'm also going to be loving them at the same time. So I will start things off. Then this first movie that I'm going to be talking about, I think, is a movie that has also been forgotten. See, this is where we're getting into the gray area. Is it a forgotten gem or is it a guilty pleasure? I don't think it's a gem. I think it's forgotten about only because the main actor in this movie blew up right after this movie. I'm talking about Blind Date with Bruce Willis, Kim Basinger, and John Larroquette. It came out in 1987, right in the middle of Bruce Willis's Moonlighting run, but before Die Hard. In fact, this is his first credited film.

[4:23] Olaf: Right. And it's actually like a co-credit with Kim Basinger, even in the credit titles. It's like both of them together. It's a Blake Edwards comedy, Pink Panther, Victor/Victoria. Bruce Willis plays this overworked... I don't even remember what job he has because they only mentioned it at the beginning. But he works for this advertising company, I think. And so he doesn't have time to date. He doesn't have time for social life in any way, shape, or form. But his boss is throwing this big business dinner with these Japanese investors. And so it's real traditional. He's got to bring a date. So he calls his brother, played by Phil Hartman, who is in the height of his Saturday Night Live fame. And they're like, look, we're going to set you up with this girl.

She's pretty. Her name's Nadia. Here's the caveat. Don't get her drunk. It's like the Gremlins rule. You don't feed her after midnight sort of thing. Don't get her drunk. That's the only thing he... and he's like, OK, fine. So he meets her. It's Kim Basinger. So already. And so they're hitting it off. The evening's going great. And I guess for some strange reason, he forgets the one rule. And so he put a bottle of champagne and they're drinking it before they go to the dinner. Well, clearly this girl cannot handle her alcohol in any way, shape, or form because it doesn't take much. But she does a total 180 can't hold her alcohol. She's being very disruptive and destructive throughout the evening.

And this movie pretty much takes place over the course of one night, gets fired from his job. Some sort of hilarity ensues. It's not that good of a movie. It's Blake Edwards, which is unfortunate because he was great. Bruce Willis is fun because he's tapping into basically his comedy side, which he was already doing with Moonlighting. He hadn't had an action persona yet. So this just seemed like a good vehicle for him to start his movie career. The highlight of this movie for me is John Larroquette, who plays like the obsessive ex-boyfriend who throughout the course of the evening manages to track her down everywhere.

[6:17] J.J.: Sure.

[6:20] Olaf: And he is hilarious. Of course, he's also in the prime of his Night Court fame. He's like when he's not winning an Emmy on Night Court every other year, he's in this movie and he plays this lawyer who is obsessed with Kim Basinger because they used to date. Like I said, the movie is not good.

[6:35] J.J.: Well, good news. Rotten Tomatoes agrees with you.

[6:38] Olaf: Thank you. See, it's a guilty pleasure for me because I hadn't seen it in forever. Yeah. And I was like, oh, Blind Date. I remember watching this and I rewatched it and it was exactly like I remembered it. It was funny. It had some moments. John Larroquette is great. Bruce Willis is Bruce Willis. Kim Basinger is, you know, serviceable is what she's doing. But other than that, it's a pretty mediocre film. The Rotten Tomatoes score is twenty-seven percent. The audience score is forty-two percent.

[7:08] J.J.: Yeah, I say I think I when it every once in a while IMDb asks you to rank, I think I gave it a five, five out of ten.

[7:13] Olaf: So do you like this movie?

[7:15] J.J.: I do. I think it's hilarious, but it's not good. I mean, I could say like it's not a good movie. And that's how I'm going to feel about a lot of these movies that I'm talking about today is that I enjoy them.

[7:25] Olaf: Yeah. And with Blind Date, to me, it was a forgotten movie. It wasn't a forgotten gem, but I had forgotten about it and then realized, oh, but I do like it. But it's not that good. But I enjoy it. I enjoy Bruce Willis in his early years because he was so much bigger and...

[7:43] J.J.: Yeah, he was broader.

[7:45] Olaf: Over the years, he got more and more subtle.

[7:48] J.J.: And yeah, one note. And I mean, it was a good note most of the time, but it was just basically the same all the time. Whole Nine Yards was probably the last sort of... I mean, he was very still in that because Matthew Perry was the sort of broad one in that movie.

[8:06] J.J.: Yeah. That whole movie is fantastic.

[8:08] Olaf: Yeah, it is.

[8:09] J.J.: Yeah, that might... that's... I don't think that's a guilty pleasure.

[8:13] Olaf: No, no, no, no, no. That's a forgotten gem.

[8:15] J.J.: And you get your hands off.

[8:17] Olaf: No, no, no.

[8:20] J.J.: If anybody's talking about that movie, it's already on your list.

[8:23] Olaf: This guy.

[8:25] J.J.: I will let that lie. I mean, another interesting fact is that Madonna was actually offered the role of the Kim Basinger role of Nadia, but she turned it down because Blake Edwards refused to cast Sean Penn opposite.

[8:38] Olaf: Madonna was like, I'll do this movie. They were dating at the time, weren't they?

[8:41] J.J.: They were married. Yeah.

[8:42] Olaf: Yeah. If you cast Sean Penn and Blake was like, no, I'm not doing that. And so Madonna, could you imagine what that movie would have been?

[8:50] J.J.: Well, they worked together before. I didn't see. I think it's called...

[8:53] Olaf: Yeah, but to do what the movie is asking for. Sean, I don't think Sean and Madonna were going to deliver.

[9:01] J.J.: Yeah, it would have been interesting because Sean Penn, this would have been early. I mean, he was sort of already...

[9:05] Olaf: Yeah, it would have been interesting.

[9:07] J.J.: Bruce will know this. Like I said, this is a really good starting vehicle for Bruce Willis because he ended up doing another movie called Sunset with Blake Edwards right at the same time as Die Hard. But then the trajectory of his career clearly shifted when Die Hard blew up. So anyway, Blind Date, 1987, Bruce Willis, twenty-seven percent Rotten Tomatoes. Watch with care.

[9:26] Olaf: OK, that wasn't bad.

[9:29] J.J.: Yes. You might have to. Yeah. You might have to check my Rotten Tomatoes scores to see if it's because what I've noticed is when it comes to the guilty pleasure episodes, you tend to bring movies that may not actually be guilty pleasures. They might actually be a little bit better quality on your side of the tracks, as we like to say. But when it comes to the Forgotten Gem episodes, I tend to bring movies that are probably more guilty pleasures and more questionable.

[9:58] Olaf: Yeah, it should be forgotten.

[9:59] J.J.: Yeah, it's funny that we have that balance there. But let's get into my first pick for this episode.

[10:06] Olaf: And it is one of my faves. I will watch it anytime it's on. It's so fun. I love it so much. I'm talking about 1992's Lady Bugs.

[10:21] J.J.: Well, I don't know. It's been Rodney Dangerfield, Jonathan Brandis. It's been a long time since I've seen this movie and a movie that would never, ever, ever be able to get made today. I don't think maybe who knows. It's just even in the '92, it's a stretch to believe what we're supposed to be buying into with this movie.

[10:43] Olaf: Yeah, but I think at that time there were lots of other movies like...

[10:47] J.J.: Oh, I agree. No, no, I agree. I'm just saying watching it now and you're going, we're supposed to buy this.

[10:53] Olaf: This is that he's in...

[10:57] J.J.: OK, yeah, I mean, but go ahead.

[10:59] Olaf: Well, yeah. The Rotten Tomatoes score. You want to take a guess?

[11:04] J.J.: Who you're laughing already.

[11:05] Olaf: Thirty-five percent.

[11:07] J.J.: Fourteen percent.

[11:13] Olaf: What? Fourteen, fourteen percent.

[11:18] J.J.: The audience score.

[11:19] Olaf: Forty-three percent.

[11:20] J.J.: So, OK, so the audience score for Blind Date and Lady Bugs is basically close.

[11:25] Olaf: Yeah. And Lady Bugs tanks compared to Blind Date in terms of critics.

[11:30] J.J.: OK, it was directed by Sidney J. Fury, who has very little notable movies on his resume other than Iron Eagle and Superman.

[11:41] Olaf: There it is.

[11:43] J.J.: Quest for Peace, which I've already talked about.

[11:47] Olaf: I'm sensing a pattern.

[11:48] J.J.: Is Iron Eagle on your guilty pleasures list?

[11:51] Olaf: It is not.

[11:52] J.J.: It is now.

[11:53] Olaf: It's not really. I don't really get into that movie very well.

[11:56] J.J.: Man, there's an audience.

[11:59] J.J.: Like I said, it stars Rodney Dangerfield, Jonathan Brandis, Vanessa Shaw, and Jackie Harry.

[12:06] Olaf: Oh, Jackie, that's right.

[12:08] J.J.: And, man, Vanessa Shaw, I loved her. I had the biggest crush. She was, still is, absolutely stunning and gorgeous. I watched this movie so many times because Rodney Dangerfield is hilarious in it. I always liked Jonathan Brandis, but Vanessa Shaw, hello.

[12:28] Olaf: Yeah, I see it.

[12:30] J.J.: Yeah, she, oh my gosh. Funny enough, Whoopi Goldberg was actually given the option to either portray Julie, which Jack A. ended up playing, or take the lead role in Sister Act.

[12:44] Olaf: Good choice.

[12:45] J.J.: Yeah, now, Whoopi loved Rodney Dangerfield, so she felt a little bad about taking it, but she chose the latter film because she felt it would be more successful, which proved right, because Sister Act was huge.

[12:58] Olaf: Right, well, Sister Act originally was going to be Bette Midler, and Bette Midler, and so I could see Whoopi like, I gotta jump on this, so I get it.

[13:05] J.J.: Yeah, and Ladybugs absolutely flopped at the box office, but Rodney Dangerfield tends to blame the marketing on that because he was trying to make a more late teen adult movie.

[13:16] Olaf: Ah, okay.

[13:17] J.J.: And it was marketed more as like a kid-friendly family film, which, it's rated PG-13. They were trying to go for an older audience, but the marketing went for a younger, so nobody went and saw it, but I did. I mean, Jonathan Brandis. And I loved it.

[13:34] Olaf: Jonathan Brandis, I guess he had the complexion and the fair skin to pull it off, I suppose.

[13:40] J.J.: Not really. So, this movie is about Rodney Dangerfield, who's trying to impress his soon-to-be wife, who has a son, Jonathan Brandis, and he's in danger of losing his job, and he's trying to suck up to the boss. And the boss owns this youth girls' soccer team, and they're terrible. Or, they were good, but now they're bad. And Rodney is talking with the boss, and to suck up to him, lies that he knows all about soccer, has all these great things on his resume for soccer. So, the boss says, well, tell you what, you're gonna be the new coach of this girls' soccer team, and win us another championship. And then it's kind of like Bad News Bears. And he shows up, and these girls cannot play, they are terrible.

But, turns out, his soon-to-be stepson, Jonathan Brandis, is an excellent soccer player, but he hates her. And looks like a girl. He ends up convincing Jonathan Brandis' character to dress up as a girl, to play on the team, to win the championship. He does it because he sees Vanessa Shaw's character, and falls in love with her. Which, by the way, they were dating at the time when this movie was made.

[14:45] Olaf: Oh.

[14:46] J.J.: Hijinks ensue. This movie's fantastic. It's so fun. I love it. There's a lot of great jokes. Rodney Dangerfield's fantastic. Classic Dangerfield. And in classic Guilty Pleasure fashion, it does not age well. It has not been that long since I've re-watched this, and I love it. I still love it. It's fantastic. But that's my first movie, Ladybugs. It's so good.

[15:11] Olaf: I would say we've both hit one deep out into the outfield.

[15:15] J.J.: Yeah. So what's your second one?

[15:17] Olaf: All right, so my second movie, we've gotten off to a pretty good start here. I'm going to say right now, I like all these movies. A lot of people love this movie. I don't think it's a good movie, but it's a Guilty Pleasure, and I think—

[15:29] J.J.: But if everybody likes it—

[15:30] Olaf: It doesn't matter.

[15:31] J.J.: It doesn't mean it's good.

[15:32] Olaf: And that's the subjectivity of what this is. But my second movie is a 1999 football classic, cult classic, Varsity Blues. It's unapologetic, MTV-produced, high school football in the state of Texas movie. I am from Texas. I lived high school football. My brother was at the games all the time because he was in the band, so we went to the state championship. I was engrossed in it. I get it. I love it. It is its own religion, its own thing.

[16:01] J.J.: There's a voice—

[16:02] Olaf: Oh, yeah. The monologue VanderBeek gives at the beginning where he's like, We run by a set of laws and this, this, and this. And he mentions actual societal laws, and he's like, In Texas, though, it's high school football. I mean, in this cast, VanderBeek, Paul Walker, John Voight, Scott Conn, Ali Larder, Amy Smart.

[16:21] J.J.: A lot of these—

[16:22] Olaf: They kind of got their start.

[16:23] J.J.: Right. Paul Walker had done a few things, but he hadn't done Fast and Furious yet.

[16:26] Olaf: Scott Conn was James Conn's son, right?

[16:28] J.J.: Yeah. I mean, that's basically it up to this point. Ali Larder, I didn't know who that was until this movie.

[16:33] Olaf: Yeah, this was definitely early in her career.

[16:36] J.J.: Amy Smart, I did know and had a crush on her anyway. Still do, if you're listening, Amy.

[16:43] Olaf: Blink and You Miss Him, Jesse Plemons playing Paul Walker's little brother.

[16:49] J.J.: Jesse Plemons would then go on to be in the Friday Night Lights TV show, which to me, the Friday Night Lights movie is a million times better than Varsity Blues. And the TV show is closer to this movie than the Friday Night Lights movie.

[16:58] Olaf: Yes, I like this movie. I just rewatched it. It's not good, but it's fun. The music's fun. The characters are fun. They're over the top. All the actors that are playing the dads that are just still caught up in Texas high school football because they're all the Uncle Ricos that never went anywhere. They never left the small town. They just sit there and go to every practice, and they talk about how Jon Voight's coach character used to run them up the field when they were young. The acting is so over the top. It's comical. It's very broad. It's very big. It's very broad.

[17:36] J.J.: Yeah. The accents are very big.

[17:38] Olaf: Oh, the accents are oof. There was an acting coach of mine who is a well-known acting coach in Texas who's in this movie. She's got a small part in it. She passed away several years ago. I remember hearing she told me when they were on set for this movie, she had a small interaction with Jon Voight off camera, and Voight just was trying to get through this thing. He was like he thought this movie is going to go straight to video.

[18:12] J.J.: Interesting.

[18:13] Olaf: He didn't think much of the movie itself when they were shooting it.

[18:17] J.J.: He plays it very well, though. And that's a credit to him because I feel like—

[18:21] Olaf: Or the editing.

[18:22] J.J.: That's right. Credit to the film. Credit to him. Credit to the editor. Not that I'm comparing these two performances, but we've talked about Michael Caine when he's doing Christmas Carol, Muppets Christmas Carol. He's going to play it like it's Shakespeare. He's not going to play down to the fact that he's doing it with Muppets. He's going to take this thing seriously. But he's not struggling to get through it.

[18:44] Olaf: Right.

[18:45] J.J.: Well, and I think Jon Voight's like I'm struggling because the script is garbage, but I'm still going to play this thing to what I think it needs to be. And it is. I mean, you don't like him. He's a class act a-hole. This movie introduced this whole younger generation to who this guy even is as an actor. Because I think if you were 16 to 23 when this movie came out, this was it. From the beginning of the movie to the very end. The soundtrack, the characters, the football. I definitely saw this in the theater. And, yeah, I enjoyed it at the time. It's not a movie that I ever am like, oh, I want to see that again. I think if it gets that run, people will watch it and have that nostalgic feeling of, oh, yeah. I remember why I liked this movie. I mean, there's some like scathing holes in this movie all over the place. It's not some sort of cinematic piece of greatness.

[19:40] Olaf: But, you know, they're not going to go out onto the field for the last game if the coach is going to go. So the coach basically is like, okay, well, I'm just going to go to my office and pack up my stuff and quit. Then while the team takes the field for the second half, apparently this team has no assistant coaches. Because the assistant coaches don't coach the football team at the end. Paul Walker does. And apparently Paul Walker broke his leg while they were filming this movie. So maybe that cast was real.

[20:08] J.J.: The Rotten Tomatoes for this movie is, take a guess.

[20:12] Olaf: Is it higher than 25?

[20:14] J.J.: Yes.

[20:15] Olaf: 26?

[20:16] J.J.: No, it's 42.

[20:20] Olaf: 46 percent.

[20:21] J.J.: 46, okay. But the audience score?

[20:24] Olaf: Audience score, 76 percent.

[20:26] J.J.: See, people, they eat this up. People love this movie. It's not good. I need to watch it again. There's a football list coming, everybody, that I think you and I need to put together. Because as I was watching this, I was like, this isn't, I mean, there are a ton of other football movies that are much better than this.

[20:41] Olaf: Yeah, we'll definitely put a list together. I will say what is sort of sad is I did get an opportunity to work with Paul Walker before he passed away. To see this movie now and go, man, there's a picture of John Voight and the five main football players. And three of them have passed away. Paul Walker, the actor who played Billy Bob at Ron Lester, I believe is his name, and now James Van Der Beek. And it's wild. But I'm not going to dog on this movie too much because I enjoy it. I enjoyed it when it came out. I didn't hold it in high regard. I still don't. But it's still a fun watch every once in a while.

[21:16] J.J.: See, that's the difference between you and me when it comes to these guilty pleasure movies.

[21:19] Olaf: What are you talking about?

[21:20] J.J.: Is I hold all of the guilty pleasure movies in high regard.

[21:25] Olaf: Yeah, OK. That's fair.

[21:26] J.J.: Somehow you love these movies, yet you're like, no.

[21:30] Olaf: Well, this is how I treat the guilty pleasure. At a respectable distance.

[21:34] J.J.: That's a good way of putting it.

[21:36] Olaf: Forgotten gems. Come on over. I love a lot of these group. A lot of these guilty pleasures. I'm come on in. Some of them are at an arm's length, but I'm not going to kick him to the curb either because they're not total garbage movies that I would never. You know, I'm not that other side of the tracks, but I am. I'm like arms over the shoulders. Group hugs. Come on over. There's plenty of food in the fridge. We're best friends.

[22:01] J.J.: Yeah.

[22:02] Olaf: Yeah. No, look, Varsity Blues. It came out. It does. It does spark that nostalgia because I was still in college and then I would end up getting a job where I was working with a bunch of water skiers who are also of that same want to have a good time, work hard, party harder. And they're all great guys. The great friends that I still have. But it's sort of I know some of them.

[22:22] J.J.: Yeah.

[22:23] Olaf: Get me into that world.

[22:24] J.J.: Yeah.

[22:25] Olaf: So it makes me appreciate this movie still. So I do keep it right here.

[22:29] J.J.: But I know what it is.

[22:30] Olaf: I know what it is, too.

[22:31] J.J.: Yeah. Because you're on that side of the tracks. You see them with your nose raised up. Hey, you know, that's a decent guilty pleasure. I think a lot of people would agree. I think the critics qualify it as a guilty pleasure. My second one is probably at least so far in the guilty pleasure canon that we've done is the highest rated that I've done. Maybe this one is definitely has broader appeal, which makes you almost question whether it's a guilty pleasure or not. So I think you would agree that it is. But I don't know. Sometimes I'm like, maybe maybe it's more than that. But OK, I love this movie. I really do. And you do, too. I know you love this movie. We fought over who was going to talk about.

[23:17] J.J.: Oh, but I'm talking about 1993 Demolition Man.

[23:23] Olaf: Yes.

[23:24] J.J.: What does he say? Send a killer to catch a killer.

[23:27] Olaf: Yeah.

[23:28] J.J.: This is just. Yes. Action schlock at its best. You've got Sylvester Stallone. You've got Wesley Snipes, Sandra Bullock right before she did Speed.

[23:40] Olaf: Yeah.

[23:41] J.J.: Benjamin Bratt, Dennis Leary, Rob Schneider. It's got a great cast. It's a fun premise. The Rotten Tomatoes score has it at sixty six percent.

[23:51] Olaf: OK.

[23:52] J.J.: And the audience score is sixty seven percent.

[23:55] Olaf: Oh, wow.

[23:57] J.J.: Welcome back to another volume of Guilty Pleasures!

[24:27] Olaf: That's right! We're diving into more movies that are considered terrible but we love them anyway.

[24:57] J.J.: So, let's kick things off with our first film.

[25:27] Olaf: Absolutely! The first one on our list is "Blind Date."

[25:57] J.J.: Oh man, "Blind Date" is a classic! Bruce Willis and Kim Basinger really brought the chaos to that one.

[26:27] Olaf: They did! It's such a wild ride, and you can't help but laugh at the absurdity of it all.

[26:37] J.J.: Right? And the way things spiral out of control is just hilarious.

[26:47] Olaf: Exactly! It's one of those movies that you know is bad, but you still enjoy watching it.

[26:57] J.J.: For sure! What do we have next?

[27:07] Olaf: Next up is "Ladybugs."

[27:17] J.J.: Oh, "Ladybugs"! Rodney Dangerfield at his finest.

[27:27] Olaf: Yes! It's such a silly premise, but it has its charm.

[27:37] J.J.: And who can forget the iconic moments? It's a guilty pleasure for sure.

[27:47] Olaf: Definitely! Moving on, we have "Varsity Blues."

[27:57] J.J.: "Varsity Blues" is another one that hits the nostalgia factor hard.

[28:07] Olaf: It really does! The football scenes and the whole high school drama are just so over the top.

[28:17] J.J.: And that whipped cream bikini scene is legendary!

[28:27] Olaf: Absolutely! It's a movie that you can't help but quote.

[28:37] J.J.: Next, we have "Demolition Man."

[28:47] Olaf: "Demolition Man" is a sci-fi classic! Sylvester Stallone and Wesley Snipes are a perfect duo.

[28:57] J.J.: It's such a bizarre concept, but it works in a strange way.

[29:07] Olaf: Right? And the future society they create is just wild.

[29:17] J.J.: Plus, who doesn't love the three seashells?

[29:27] Olaf: Exactly! Now, let's talk about "Assassins."

[29:37] J.J.: "Assassins" with Antonio Banderas and Sylvester Stallone is a fun action flick.

[29:47] Olaf: It really is! The rivalry between the two characters is entertaining.

[29:57] J.J.: And the action sequences are just over the top enough to keep you engaged.

[30:07] Olaf: For sure! Finally, we have "The Avengers."

[30:17] J.J.: Not the Marvel one, but the 1998 film with Ralph Fiennes and Uma Thurman.

[30:27] Olaf: Yes! It's a quirky adaptation of the classic TV series.

[30:37] J.J.: It's definitely a guilty pleasure, with its campy style and odd plot.

[30:47] Olaf: Absolutely! So many great moments that make you scratch your head.

[30:57] J.J.: Well, that's our lineup for this volume of Guilty Pleasures!

[31:07] Olaf: We hope you enjoyed our picks and maybe found a few to add to your watchlist.

[31:17] J.J.: Don't forget to subscribe and follow us on social media for more movie discussions!

[31:27] Olaf: Until next time, keep enjoying those guilty pleasures!

[35:55] J.J. Gonzalez: Another movie that was so similar, it feels so similar to this.

[36:01] Olaf Adcet: Yeah, the Specialist was Sharon Stone, which is the one where he did right before this.

[36:04] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, I sometimes get the two confused because they're so similar. He could be basically the same character.

[36:09] Olaf Adcet: Yeah, I wonder if he is.

[36:16] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh, theory. Interesting. That's a good pick though. I feel like the three movies that I came out with today are all hitting the mark. I'm nailing the mark with this one.

[36:20] Olaf Adcet: Oh, you've already told me that I'm going to hate this movie.

[36:26] J.J. Gonzalez: I know you don't like this movie. Okay, so I've seen it. I do like this movie. I do know that it's bad. It's one of those things where I'm like, I know it's bad and I totally get everything that everybody says about it, but for whatever reason, I have always enjoyed this movie. The movie is awful. There's so many things wrong with it from the get-go. It has a star-studded cast, so you would think this could only be a success, but the editing is so bad. There's so many things where you're like, wait, you know that parts of the movie are missing and you'll never know what those parts were and if it would have made it better. But it's still something that I will sit down and watch and enjoy. Building this up, but I am talking about 1998, The Avengers.

[37:12] Olaf Adcet: Oh, Ray Fiennes, everybody. Uma Thurman, Sean Connery, Fiona Shaw, Jim Broadbent, Patrick Macnee, Eddie Izzard. What a cast!

[37:24] J.J. Gonzalez: I will say this: if somebody put this in front of me right now, I would re-watch it because it's been a while. However, it is a hot pile.

[37:32] Olaf Adcet: Yeah, and it's really fascinating to research because you see like all these things that happened that went against it.

[37:47] J.J. Gonzalez: Yes, like the studio basically destroyed this movie. That cast you mentioned is dynamite.

[37:54] Olaf Adcet: Yeah, you look at that and you go, based on the material, because it's based off of the 60s show, this could hit.

[38:05] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh yeah, it had every potential to. Yeah, it was directed by Jeremiah S. Chechik from Christmas Vacation, yeah, National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, and another favorite of mine, Benny and June.

[38:10] Olaf Adcet: I love Benny and June.

[38:16] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, it's great. The soundtrack's fantastic.

[38:16] Olaf Adcet: Oh, stop.

[38:25] J.J. Gonzalez: But yes, this movie is stupid and nonsensical. It makes no sense because of all the cuts the studio made.

[38:33] Olaf Adcet: Yeah, it makes absolutely no sense. But Sean Connery plays the villain and he's all about like controlling the weather and like the life-size teddy bears.

[38:39] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, none of it makes sense. It's so bizarre. Sean is just eating up the scenery. He chooses everything that he's in like a gourmet meal. He comes walking in at one point, he's like, "Now is the winter of your discontent. You will buy your weather from me and my God, you'll pay for it." And it's just the best. I love it so much.

[39:00] Olaf Adcet: I just like listening to you do it.

[39:08] J.J. Gonzalez: Ray Fiennes said of this movie, "I think it's a badge of honor to have a real flop on your resume," which, you know, because this was for him. I mean, he was, this was peak Ray Fiennes, like late 90s. He was coming off of a lot of great stuff.

[39:24] Olaf Adcet: He still hadn't exploded yet.

[39:31] J.J. Gonzalez: Well, he was already nominated for English Patient and Schindler's List. He had already done those things. He was in Quiz Show. He was getting what people knew. This was like, this was supposed, I think this would have been, if this had hit, would have been like, "Oh yeah, Ray." There's a book by Peter Bart called The Gross, and it covered this movie's unfolding disaster in like huge detail. Some of the facts: Warner Bros. greenlit this movie largely on the strength of the cast and their appreciation of Jeremiah Chechik's work on Diabolik, which was a movie he did in 1996. Warner Brothers was horrified when they saw the first cut of the film, and the screening took place in front of a largely Spanish-speaking working-class audience in Phoenix, Arizona, who hated the movie.

So Warner Brothers freaks out because they screened this movie for the completely wrong audience. I mean, this whole movie is centered around a British TV show that wasn't widely known in the States in the first place. The studio then forced Chechik to cut many of his favorite scenes and conduct reshoots, and the final cut went from 115 minutes to 89 minutes.

[40:48] Olaf Adcet: Oh my God.

[40:48] J.J. Gonzalez: And was completely incoherent. The studio even refused to hold further test screenings or to have an official premiere before its release.

[40:53] Olaf Adcet: I just remember the trailer coming out and thinking they look great, like Ray Fiennes and Uma Thurman. And you're right, it wasn't a show that was widely popular in the States, but I even knew what it was.

[41:04] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, we all knew what it was. And you could, I mean, Patrick Macnee and Diana Rigg.

[41:10] Olaf Adcet: Well, Diana Rigg refused to come back, I understand.

[41:17] J.J. Gonzalez: But like they were the, she was sent the script and she was offered a role and she refused.

[41:22] Olaf Adcet: Well, even isn't Patrick Macnee's character like some sort of invisible character or something like down in the depths of like the headquarters of whatever?

[41:26] J.J. Gonzalez: I don't like, Ray Fiennes has got to go down and get something and he talks with Patrick Macnee, but it's like, I'd have to double-check. It's been a minute since I've...

[41:39] Olaf Adcet: Yeah, but I thought, again, I can't get back. I can't get past how great this cast is.

[41:46] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh, it's so good. And the chemistry between Uma Thurman and Ray Fiennes, I thought was good. Everybody's good. Eddie Izzard only has one line in the whole movie and he's great as just like the henchman.

[41:58] Olaf Adcet: Yeah, well, you mentioned Fiona Shaw also.

[42:05] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, Fiona Shaw plays Mother.

[42:11] Olaf Adcet: Praise her in general.

[42:11] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, and Jim Broadbent is Mother.

[42:11] Olaf Adcet: I mean, amazing cast. It's just the movie's a disaster.

[42:16] J.J. Gonzalez: But here's the thing, we sit here and we talk about it and we're like, and I'm over here going, if somebody were to put this in front of me, I would watch it right now.

[42:20] Olaf Adcet: Yeah, because I want to watch it right now.

[42:27] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, it's, I don't hold it like you hold it. Like you clearly, it's on, like I said, you have a different relationship with your guilty pleasure movies.

[42:33] Olaf Adcet: For me, I don't even know. This was not even getting an invitation to pleasure movies. This was not even getting it. Varsity's in, like Avengers probably not even making the short list despite the fact that the movie itself is incoherent. I just love watching these stars do their best. You wish that one, either this movie had been better, two, they would have found something else to do again together later.

[42:58] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, because Sean Connery in this is so fun because he's chewing the scenery. He's kind of off the wall. He's eccentric and makes weird choices and he can be broad at times, and it's just a delight. And Ray Fiennes and Uma Thurman are just soaking it up trying to be these characters that everybody knows and loves and doing well.

[43:17] Olaf Adcet: I think, like I said, like yeah, Ray Fiennes is perfect to play that character.

[43:23] J.J. Gonzalez: Let's bring it back. I think we should.

[43:29] Olaf Adcet: Let's do it, but call it something else because it's just going to confuse the audience.

[43:34] J.J. Gonzalez: No, I think you can still be the...

[43:39] Olaf Adcet: Yeah, it's not called The Avengers, everybody. It's just called Avengers.

[43:43] J.J. Gonzalez: Actually, difference.

[43:47] Olaf Adcet: I think it is called The Avengers.

[43:49] J.J. Gonzalez: Is it called The Avengers?

[43:55] Olaf Adcet: Yeah, and I think the Marvel one is called Avengers.

[43:58] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh, you're right. We'll cut all this out anyway.

[44:03] Olaf Adcet: No, I'll probably leave it in.

[44:16] J.J. Gonzalez: So wait a minute, hold on. Did you give an audience score, a Rotten Tomatoes score for this?

[44:24] Olaf Adcet: I did not.

[44:29] J.J. Gonzalez: Aha, nine percent. Is that your guess?

[44:37] Olaf Adcet: No. Well, here's the thing. You gave me 14 for Ladybugs and you gave me 18 for Assassins, and I think The Avengers is worse than both of them. So if you're going to tell me that it's above 20, I'm going to be really shocked.

[44:47] J.J. Gonzalez: Well, I want you to give me a guess.

[44:55] Olaf Adcet: I'm going to say, I'll say 12 percent.

[44:58] J.J. Gonzalez: 12 percent Rotten Tomatoes?

[45:04] Olaf Adcet: Okay, I will say of all the episodes that we've done of guilty pleasure so far, this I believe is the lowest and may stay the lowest of all the ones we do. I don't know, but Rotten Tomatoes has it at five percent.

[45:10] J.J. Gonzalez: Wow, Ladybug is up there like, yeah, 14 percent not so bad anymore.

[45:17] Olaf Adcet: The audience score, do you want to guess that one?

[45:23] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh, 12 percent.

[45:24] Olaf Adcet: 15 percent.

[45:30] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, it's bad, man. I know. I do. I remember walking out going, what? You can watch this at any time and never understand what it's about and never feel like it's good. Like we, this is all subjective, but even people know because I watch it and I'm like, I'm having fun.

[45:37] Olaf Adcet: Oh man, when the teddy bears come out, what?

[45:39] J.J. Gonzalez: I know, it makes no sense. Like what in the world is happening?

[45:47] Olaf Adcet: Not only is it weird, but then there's a whole chase with random bears. It is nonsense. It's bizarre. And then Sean Connery's controlling the weather and nonsense.

[45:53] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, good stuff.

[45:55] Olaf Adcet: Yep, but that's my third one and I think that one will hold the record as the lowest Rotten Tomatoes at least for a bit. Who knows?

[46:03] J.J. Gonzalez: We'll see. Maybe this next episode you'll surprise me.

[46:10] Olaf Adcet: I hope we didn't pick these guilty pleasure episodes. You just keep building because this one was pretty, this was a solid episode of the movies. Like we all, we both really got the assignment on this.

[46:19] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, it came in.

[46:25] Olaf Adcet: Yeah, came in with which I had the highest rated one.

[46:27] J.J. Gonzalez: So, and the lowest.

[46:29] Olaf Adcet: You are, like you say, a man of the people.

[46:34] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, that's right. Guys, watch it. He'll take care of you. Just don't go into it with any expectations or try to make sense of it. Just enjoy what you're looking at, basically.

[46:40] Olaf Adcet: Well, guys, that's another episode of Guilty Pleasures coming to an end. We hope you enjoyed it. We hope you check out some of these movies if you haven't seen them before and let us know what you think. Are these guilty pleasures for you or do they deserve the reviews that they have? Let us know in the comments.

[46:52] J.J. Gonzalez: Until then, be sure to check us out on our website, bttmtpodcast.com, where you can see all of our episodes, play our trivia, and check out all of our lists and cool merch. And we've got cool merch, so check us out and we'll see you then. And until then, to be continued.

[47:13] Johnny Clay: Back to the Movie Theater is hosted by J.J. Gonzalez and Olaf Adcet, produced by me, Johnny Clay. J.J. Gonzalez and Olaf Adcet. Theme song and incidental music by The Dimes. Visit us at bttmtpodcast.com for trivia, play-alongs, merch, and more. That's bttmtpodcast.com. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok and find us on YouTube at Back to the Movie Theater with J.J. and Olaf.