Ep. 45 - VS! vol. 2 Mission to Mars vs Red Planet

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[0:00] J.J.: Welcome back to another episode of "Back to the Movie Theater." I'm J.J.

[0:05] Olaf: And I'm Olaf.

[0:10] J.J.: Today, we have a special episode for you. It's Episode 45, and we're diving into another round of "VS!"

[0:15] Olaf: That's right! This time, we're taking a trip to Mars to compare two films: "Mission to Mars" and "Red Planet."

[0:25] J.J.: Both movies have their own unique take on space exploration, and we're excited to see which one comes out on top.

[0:35] Olaf: Absolutely! So, let's get into it.

[0:40] J.J.: First up, let's talk about "Mission to Mars."

[0:45] Olaf: "Mission to Mars" was released in 2000 and directed by Brian De Palma.

[0:50] J.J.: It stars Gary Sinise, Tim Robbins, and Don Cheadle, among others.

[0:55] Olaf: The film follows a crew on a mission to Mars who encounter some unexpected challenges.

[1:05] J.J.: It's got some stunning visuals and a pretty interesting premise.

[1:10] Olaf: Yeah, but it also received mixed reviews from critics.

[1:15] J.J.: Right, and some people felt it was a bit slow-paced.

[1:20] Olaf: But I think it has its moments.

[1:25] J.J.: Definitely! Now, let's switch gears and talk about "Red Planet."

[1:30] Olaf: "Red Planet" came out in 2000 as well, directed by Antony Hoffman.

[1:35] J.J.: It stars Val Kilmer, Carrie-Anne Moss, and Tom Sizemore.

[1:40] Olaf: This film focuses on a team sent to Mars to find a solution for Earth's dying environment.

[1:50] J.J.: It also has some action-packed sequences, but it didn't fare well with audiences either.

[1:55] Olaf: Yeah, it struggled with its plot and character development.

[2:00] J.J.: So, both films have their strengths and weaknesses.

[2:05] Olaf: Exactly! Now, let's dive deeper into the themes and performances in each film.

[2:15] J.J.: Sounds good!

[2:20] Olaf: Let's start with "Mission to Mars."

[2:25] J.J.: One of the standout performances for me was Gary Sinise.

[2:30] Olaf: He really brought depth to his character, especially with the emotional moments.

[2:35] J.J.: Agreed! And the cinematography was impressive, capturing the vastness of space beautifully.

[2:45] Olaf: It really made you feel like you were on a journey to another planet.

[2:50] J.J.: Now, what about "Red Planet"?

[2:55] Olaf: Val Kilmer's performance was solid, but the script let him down a bit.

[3:00] J.J.: Yeah, the dialogue felt a bit forced at times.

[3:05] Olaf: And the pacing was uneven, which hurt the overall experience.

[3:10] J.J.: So, it seems like both films have their merits but also significant flaws.

[3:15] Olaf: Definitely!

[3:20] J.J.: Let's take a quick break and then come back to discuss which film we think ultimately wins this battle.

[3:30] Olaf: Sounds good!

[3:35] J.J.: Stay tuned!

[13:15] J.J.: I never was taken out of the film because of the direction. And not that I was taken out of Mission to Mars, but you already know Brian De Palma's work, so you're thinking, well, why is this movie not good? I was taken out of the movie in Mission to Mars many times. What I'm saying, were you when you watch Red Planet? Not really. So if I'm going to give a point to anybody here, I'm going to give it to Hoffman for Red Planet.

[13:43] Olaf: Yeah, I have to agree with you, despite the fact that I feel bad because it's Brian De Palma, but I think we also expect a lot better from him.

[13:53] J.J.: Yes, that's the issue, is that he's a victim of his own success in the fact that he directed Untouchables. Like, hello? I tell you, Mission to Mars, not the Untouchables. Mission to Mars was not Mission Impossible either. Red Planet pulling away a little bit. Now, here's where it's going to get interesting. We're going to get into the casts now. So Mission to Mars, we have Tim Robbins, Gary Sinise, Don Cheadle, Connie Nielsen, and Jerry O'Connell.

[14:28] J.J.: Another way of putting it is you got three Academy Award nominated actors. And Jerry O'Connell.

[14:35] Olaf: Oh, I'm sorry. You have four because Armin Mueller-Stahl is in it as an uncredited, as the commander. He was nominated for an Oscar. So there's four nominated actors. Tim Robbins won, and then Jerry O'Connell. So yes, that's Mission to Mars' top-notch cast.

[14:57] J.J.: Yeah, you list off that cast for an upcoming movie and people are like, okay, all right. They all like these people. They're all great. Red Planet, our cast is Val Kilmer, Carrie Ann Moss, Tom Sizemore, Benjamin Bratt, Simon Baker, and Terrence Stamp.

[15:18] Olaf: Terrence Stamp, legend.

[15:20] J.J.: Legend. Zod.

[15:22] Olaf: Not a bad cast either.

[15:23] J.J.: No, because you've got Carrie Ann Moss who is now everywhere because of The Matrix.

[15:27] Olaf: Everywhere. She did like three or four movies the same year.

[15:30] J.J.: Yeah, you have Val Kilmer, Tombstone, Batman. Still bankable.

[15:35] Olaf: Oh yeah, I'd say so. Very small, but still very, you know, they're there. Benjamin Bratt sort of had some stuff in the nineties. I think he did this before Miss Congeniality, like the same year, but-

[15:46] J.J.: Yeah, it was like right around the same time, I think.

[15:48] Olaf: Tom Sizemore to me is miscast.

[15:50] J.J.: Oh, he's not miscast. He belongs in this movie. Just not as a multiple PhD biologist, but that's just me. He's fine. They were trying to make that scientist role cool.

[16:00] Olaf: If I had to lean towards the cast, I would lean towards Mission to Mars cast.

[16:09] J.J.: Yeah. I mean, if you told me tomorrow, if you told me today, hey, there's a movie and these people are going to be in it and you gave me the Mission to Mars cast, I would say, yeah, what are they doing? Hopefully it's better than Mission to Mars, but I would still want to watch Tim Robbins, Gary Sinise, Don Cheadle in a movie.

[16:25] Olaf: Yeah, this one's really hard for me. So you're going to go with Mission to Mars?

[16:29] J.J.: I'm going to go with Mission to Mars only because, let me put it this way. These casts belong in these movies. If you switch the casts, I'm not sure they're pulling it off. But here's the thing. I think the Mission to Mars cast could pull off Red Planet. I don't know if the Red Planet cast could pull off Mission to Mars.

[16:50] Olaf: Maybe, because Simon Baker, he's basically the Jerry O'Connell of Red Planet.

[16:55] J.J.: Exactly. Connie Nielsen and Carrie Anne Moss would be able to do what they need to do. I thought Carrie Anne Moss was great in Red Planet. Connie Nielsen didn't have a whole lot to do in Mission to Mars. So to award a point, are we just going off of pedigree or are we going off of overall performance?

[17:15] Olaf: I'm going to go off of pedigree, but I'm also going to go off of collectively what this cast is doing. Red Planet, they all die, except Val Kilmer and Carrie Anne Moss. Carrie Anne Moss does what she needs to do, survive up in space. Awesome. Val Kilmer is a star, so he's not going to die. Mission to Mars, Tim Robbins is the only one who buys it. He's the only one who beefs. Everybody else lives. I'm leaning towards Mission to Mars. It's weird because I don't care about these people, these characters, but I think the cast, it's such a bad script.

[17:51] J.J.: Yes, it's a bad script. I think Mission to Mars is a bad script. I also think it's a real bad performance from everybody because of the bad script. Whereas the cast of Red Planet, much more compelling performances, feels more relatable.

[18:11] Olaf: Which goes back to my point. If you switch these casts, I think the Mission to Mars cast is blowing that Red Planet out of the water. It's like Shakespeare to them. They're going to be acting their tails off. I think if you stick that Red Planet cast in Mission to Mars, it's even worse. It's like the film is even worse. It's not a hit. It's just like the script is so bad with Mission to Mars, that cast in Red Planet wouldn't be able to elevate it. The cast of Mission to Mars is trying to elevate that script as much as they can. It's so bad, even they are having a problem doing it. That's why I'm leaning towards Mission to Mars.

[18:42] J.J.: I'm leaning towards Red Planet, but I will concede and I will give Mission to Mars the point. Because if it is just pedigree, then yeah, Mission takes it. You've got nominations. We're not talking about the screenplay. We could do a screenplay versus here and go, here's who wrote the screenplay for this. Mission to Mars would lose because the screenplay is trash. The script for Red Planet is not great either. It's not great either. They do a great job with the material, whereas Mission to Mars, that script is terrible and they also don't do a great job with it. They definitely fall into the trap of a bad, bad script and just their acting doesn't...

[19:26] Olaf: Yeah. So for Mission to Mars, bad script, do the actors elevate it? No. Red Planet, bad script, do the actors elevate it? Yes.

[19:38] J.J.: Right. So this is a very nuanced... I didn't think it was going to get this nuanced. It's a hard one because they both have good casts.

[19:47] Olaf: They do. They do. I mean, they did their job.

[19:48] J.J.: They're both bad movies. We have to come back. We'll see where the score ends up. We may have to circle back to the cast and maybe a tiebreaker situation.

[19:56] Olaf: So maybe cast is a draw.

[19:59] J.J.: It could be a push. Yeah.

[20:11] Olaf: I want to stick into the cast category.

[20:13] J.J.: Okay.

[20:14] Olaf: Because each of these movies has a big name death. So you have Mission to Mars, Tim Robbins. It's not his movie, but he does not survive. And honestly, it just feels like the most ridiculous death that also doesn't seem necessary.

[20:31] J.J.: Well, to be honest with you, having seen this movie before, I thought he bought it a lot earlier. He was in way more of the movie than I remembered. I remembered how he died. I remembered how it happened. I just thought it happened much sooner.

[20:44] Olaf: But the whole execution, no pun intended, of his death is...

[20:49] J.J.: It's laughable.

[20:50] Olaf: Yeah, it's laughable. Versus Red Planet, Terrence Stamp, who is the elder statesman of the group, who even having not seen this movie, I watched it. I'm like, Terrence, the way they're setting him up on the space station before they go down there, I'm like, if he lives, I'll be really surprised.

[21:10] J.J.: I thought he would live longer, especially considering it's Terrence Stamp.

[21:18] Olaf: But that also made me think he's going to be, if anybody goes, it's going to be him and he'll be the first one.

[21:25] J.J.: Sure. My only thing with his death is his is not as laughable as Tim Robbins. His makes more sense, but it's so anticlimactic for him. It's just like, you're just going to sit here and that's that.

[21:42] Olaf: Well, what's wild is, and you're right, they could have, at the end of the day, they could have taken him. He probably still would have died because when they got to wherever they were going to, it was all destroyed. But you find out that they had enough oxygen because it was breathable air. They could have taken him. So he died alone and he didn't need to.

[21:59] J.J.: So does that, does he lose points for that or do they not? Is that bad writing?

[22:03] Olaf: I don't know if he...

[22:05] J.J.: Right.

[22:05] Olaf: It's not his fault.

[22:06] J.J.: So he goes out, ruptured spleen, isn't going to make it. So he just sort of sits there and he, much like Tim Robbins, does the noble thing is like, you guys need to go for the mission, for the good of the mission. You're going to have to let me die. Which I'm still not totally sure Tim Robbins needed to die, but...

[22:27] Olaf: Well, there is that moment where they make a last attempt. She goes out to try to save him. I agree. I think his way of trying to save the crew and the mission by jettisoning himself towards the module or whatever he has to go to was a bit cavalier and like, I'm going to be the cowboy here and I'm going to, I'm coming in hot, but I can do it. He hooks on, but why does he, why does he have to let go of whatever it is that he hooks onto? It seems more idiotic to me.

[23:02] J.J.: So having said that, I'm giving my point to Terrence Stamp because his death was somewhat against his control.

[23:06] Olaf: Now, is this counting towards the cast or is this a different category?

[23:11] J.J.: This is a different category.

[23:12] Olaf: Okay.

[23:13] J.J.: This is a different category, but I wanted to stay within this cast because it's all connected.

[23:18] Olaf: But no, but it's a totally different character. Character, death, different category.

[23:22] J.J.: Well, I would agree. Red Planet gets the point on a death because Terrence Stamp's was better, if not...

[23:29] Olaf: He would prefer not...

[23:30] J.J.: Lame.

[23:32] Olaf: Well, very.

[23:33] J.J.: It was lame, but it's still way better than the comical...

[23:37] Olaf: The other deaths that happened throughout the movie are, you know...

[23:41] J.J.: Those are pretty tough.

[23:43] Olaf: Well, the Benjamin Bratt one's kind of dumb too, but when Simon Baker just sort of...

[23:49] J.J.: Yeah.

[23:49] Olaf: He's mad. He's like, eh.

[23:51] J.J.: Yeah. That one was weird.

[23:52] Olaf: The Tom Sizemore death was epic.

[23:55] J.J.: Yes. No, that was great. All right. So the next category, we're leaving the cast behind. The cast was kind of a draw.

[24:00] Olaf: Death, yes.

[24:02] J.J.: We've got a death in the movie, big name. Red Planet wins that one.

[24:06] Olaf: So it looks like Red Planet is distancing itself.

[24:09] J.J.: Well, as of right now, Mission to Mars has one point.

[24:13] Olaf: What did they win? The audience score?

[24:16] J.J.: Yeah. The Rotten Tomatoes audience score.

[24:22] Olaf: Okay. So next up we have music. For Mission to Mars, we have the legendary...

[24:29] J.J.: It's Ennio. Ennio Morricone.

[24:31] Olaf: Good, the Bad, the Ugly, Once Upon a Time in the West, The Hateful Eight.

[24:35] J.J.: The Untouchables.

[24:36] Olaf: He is amazing. He has such a huge, huge roster of classic movie scores.

[24:45] J.J.: For Red Planet, we have Graham Revel. He did The Saint. He did Daredevil. And he did The Crow.

[24:53] Olaf: Right. Which from a stylized standpoint, I like all three of those movies.

[24:58] J.J.: Yeah. I mean, the Ben Affleck Daredevil movie is a guilty pleasure.

[25:03] Olaf: It is. The director's cut though, way better. Side note.

[25:05] J.J.: Yeah, it makes it a little better. Yeah.

[25:07] Olaf: Way better. Here's my issue with Mission to Mars. And I love Ennio. The score almost feels like a B-rated version of anything else he's ever done. There's nothing really memorable about this score.

[25:19] J.J.: I'm listening to it and I'm like, this kind of sounds like Untouchables, like stuff he didn't use for Untouchables. He's sort of bringing into this. I barely remember the music. It's not memorable at all.

[25:33] Olaf: It's not. But here's the thing. I barely remember the music to Red Planet.

[25:37] J.J.: True. But I do remember that the Red Planet music is just more like grunge electronic. It's very of its time.

[25:44] Olaf: Yeah. Well, and it fits the, I guess, the tone of the movie. I don't know. Who do you want to give this to for the movies? We have Ennio Morricone and someone that nobody's ever really heard of, but he has arguably done some good movies. Graham Revel or Revel.

[26:05] J.J.: It's almost a push for me because much like De Palma, Ennio has got such a high bar because of the success of previous work. This to me feels very uninspired. It's almost as cheesy as the movie is that I kind of want to lean towards Red Planet. Red Planet leans also towards like a recording artist, Sting, Peter Gabriel. So it does get a little help there. So I guess if I was, I don't know.

[26:30] J.J.: Oh man, I feel bad because I don't want to give Red Planet the- I just say I can't even remember his music.

[26:35] Olaf: I'm not going to give them the point then, but many- I mean, but NEO's scores in Mission to Mars is not good.

[26:40] J.J.: Well, so are we going just off of pedigree, or do you want to go off of the actual product?

[26:46] Olaf: Well, if I go off of the product, it's- it's Graham Revell.

[26:49] J.J.: If I go off of pedigree, it's NEO, but even that isn't good enough for me in this particular case.

[26:55] Olaf: So I almost would lean towards Red Planet getting the point.

[26:58] J.J.: Okay, Red Planet scores another point.

[27:01] Olaf: Man, I thought this was going to be a little closer.

[27:03] J.J.: Mission to Mars just can't get on the board. It's just one point.

[27:07] Olaf: Thanks, Rotten Tomatoes, which I think is wrong too.

[27:11] J.J.: Right. This is almost a sweep at the moment.

[27:15] Olaf: So far. I mean, it's almost like you want to give a point to the cast of Mission to Mars as a sympathy point, but I don't want to.

[27:22] J.J.: I know you don't. I know.

[27:25] Olaf: All right, so now this is where it's going to get interesting and maybe Mission to Mars can pull it out.

[27:31] J.J.: We'll see. Now we're getting into the numbers.

[27:33] Olaf: We're getting into the budget, the gross and the overall profit of the movies.

[27:38] J.J.: So Mission to Mars, estimated budget, $100 million.

[27:42] Olaf: Red Planet, estimated budget, $80 million.

[27:46] J.J.: Now, if you had told me Red Planet was $100 million estimated and Mission to Mars was $80 million, I'd be like, oh, that makes sense because all of the effects, all of the space scenes look so cheap, so bad in Mission to Mars.

[28:04] Olaf: Agreed. The going back to like the death scene of Tim Robbins, when they're all floating in space and they're trying to save him and they have to leave the whatever to get to the other thing to get to the planet.

[28:14] J.J.: Even when they're in the spaceship, whenever they're in space, any space scenes just look so cheap.

[28:21] Olaf: I will say this, the set pieces they use when they're in the ship or whatever it is that they're in, like the rotating thing, those are actually pretty cool in Mission to Mars.

[28:34] J.J.: I think Mission to Mars is budget maybe too because NASA's name is actually on this movie, whereas in Red Planet, NASA has nothing to do with anything.

[28:42] Olaf: And see, I would say that it's because of the cast.

[28:46] J.J.: Well, that too. That too. Yeah.

[28:49] Olaf: Probably more that than the other. But the space scenes looked terrible in Mission to Mars.

[28:54] J.J.: Yeah. So bad. So bad. Like I had to double check.

[28:57] Olaf: When did this come out?

[29:01] J.J.: I know. Because it feels like a space movie from the 90s, maybe.

[29:05] Olaf: Yeah. Or the late 80s, early 90s for sure.

[29:08] J.J.: What I find interesting is these two movies and Armageddon and Deep Impact came out in 98, 2000.

[29:16] Olaf: And they all sort of use some sort of international space station element.

[29:21] J.J.: What I find very interesting is that the actual International Space Station didn't even become a thing until 1998.

[29:28] Olaf: They use it way better in Armageddon and Deep Impact.

[29:30] J.J.: Yeah. Or at least Armageddon.

[29:31] Olaf: In Mission to Mars, they don't call it the International Space Station.

[29:34] J.J.: They call it like some other space station.

[29:38] Olaf: They call it something else.

[29:39] J.J.: Because it's supposed to be in the future.

[29:42] Olaf: I know. It's supposed to take place in 2020, Mission to Mars, which, OK, unnecessarily.

[29:48] J.J.: Which you don't really realize at first.

[29:52] Olaf: And then all of a sudden, right at the beginning of the movie, there's like a futuristic car.

[29:57] J.J.: And you're like, what?

[29:59] Olaf: Right. Gary Sinise pulls up into some sort of makeshift futuristic car.

[30:02] J.J.: And then they give you the date.

[30:04] Olaf: And you're like, oh, OK.

[30:06] J.J.: I don't. Are they giving us a date to tell us to show us the car?

[30:09] Olaf: Because other than that, it doesn't need to be said in the future.

[30:14] J.J.: Yeah. No, not really.

[30:15] Olaf: At least with Red Planet, they explain Earth is dying.

[30:19] J.J.: And for the last 20 years, we've been trying to colonize Mars.

[30:22] Olaf: And now it's 20, whatever, 50, 57 or something.

[30:25] J.J.: So, yeah, we're getting we're getting into things before we've left where we're at.

[30:30] Olaf: I mean, if you're just going off of numbers, Mission to Mars has the bigger budget.

[30:34] J.J.: So should they get the point?

[30:36] Olaf: Here's the thing. I think what we did this with the last versus.

[30:38] J.J.: What did you do with it?

[30:39] Olaf: It's not about just the budget, because you mentioned budget, gross profit.

[30:44] J.J.: Oh, do we combine them all?

[30:45] Olaf: Because you're right. They have a big budget and they made this.

[30:48] J.J.: Look how much more money this movie made.

[30:51] Olaf: But what did the profit?

[30:53] J.J.: What was the profit?

[30:54] Olaf: So a bean counter from a studio standpoint.

[30:57] J.J.: So we will we will hold off on awarding points because this almost feels like we just want to get Mission to Mars points here because they had a bigger budget and they didn't.

[31:06] Olaf: What did they do with it? Yes.

[31:07] J.J.: So then we get to the worldwide gross.

[31:11] Olaf: Mission to Mars.

[31:12] J.J.: One hundred and ten million.

[31:15] Olaf: Let's we'll round up to one hundred and eleven million.

[31:17] J.J.: One hundred eleven million. OK.

[31:18] Olaf: Red Planet. Thirty three million.

[31:21] J.J.: Thirty three and a half. Yeah.

[31:22] Olaf: Thirty three and a half million.

[31:24] J.J.: Just off of that.

[31:25] Olaf: Oh, no, I'm sorry. Sorry.

[31:27] J.J.: Let's continue. Let's continue.

[31:28] Olaf: So the overall profit, the overall profit of these movies, Mission to Mars comes out with eleven million dollars, roughly in profit, because it might actually be less depending on like marketing and all of that stuff.

[31:44] J.J.: Sure. And then Red Planet, roughly forty six million dollars in profit.

[31:50] Olaf: So this is an interesting one, because you can almost circle this back to the release date where we gave Red Planet the point because they released theirs in November.

[31:56] J.J.: But Mission to Mars capitalizes on being first out of the gate.

[32:02] Olaf: They're cast.

[32:03] J.J.: And so it made a hundred over one hundred million dollars.

[32:07] Olaf: Yeah. But the movie is trash.

[32:09] J.J.: Yeah. So by the time you get to November, you get to Red Planet.

[32:11] Olaf: People are going to be like, I don't want to go back to Mars.

[32:13] J.J.: That other movie sucked.

[32:15] Olaf: Yeah, I think they had to fight that stigma.

[32:19] J.J.: We just had the worst trip to Mars ever.

[32:22] Olaf: Why do we want to go back?

[32:23] J.J.: If it cost eighty million dollars to make and it only made thirty three.

[32:27] Olaf: It didn't make a profit. Red Planet.

[32:29] J.J.: It lost.

[32:31] Olaf: Oh, yeah, it lost money.

[32:33] J.J.: So Mission to Mars wins this one.

[32:35] Olaf: Hands down. Crazy.

[32:37] J.J.: Now, do you give them one point or give them three?

[32:40] Olaf: I don't think you give them a point for the budget.

[32:44] J.J.: It's like if they had lost money, it's really about the profit.

[32:47] Olaf: And so Mission to Mars definitely gets the point because Red Planet lost forty six million dollars.

[32:50] J.J.: I guess Mission would get two points.

[32:52] Olaf: I could give them two points.

[32:53] J.J.: These feel like sympathy points so bad, but well, I mean, they mean they they had a budget, they made money, they made their profit and they made more money than the other.

[33:04] Olaf: Like if they had both made a profit and it was just like Mission to Mars made a little bit more.

[33:08] J.J.: That's different.

[33:09] Olaf: They won. They won in world worldwide gross and they won in profit and they got their money back.

[33:15] J.J.: Yeah. Red Planet was totally in the in the red.

[33:17] Olaf: So Red Planet came out negative forty six, which is such a shame because it is.

[33:23] J.J.: Yeah. I mean, it's not like it was a masterpiece.

[33:26] Olaf: But if I had to watch either one of these two movies again, I'm watching Red Planet again.

[33:30] J.J.: Yeah. If you told me, hey, we need to redo this episode and you need to rewatch the movies, I would say I can I can watch Red Planet again.

[33:34] Olaf: Yeah.

[33:41] J.J.: I don't ever want to watch Mission to Mars ever again, ever again.

[33:46] Olaf: Yeah, it's that's rough.

[33:48] J.J.: Or I'll wait another 20 years, 25 years to see Mission to Mars.

[33:54] Olaf: All right.

[33:54] J.J.: So now we're going to get into the the the tone and tempo of these movies.

[34:01] Olaf: Mission to Mars is so confusing to me because feels like two movies.

[34:05] J.J.: It does, because there's a movie in Mission to Mars where it's like so dramatic and lofty and almost pious.

[34:17] Olaf: And then the other half of the movie is like a 90s comedy because it's they're just constantly joking.

[34:22] J.J.: It seems like nobody's concerned about anything.

[34:26] Olaf: There's a lot of jokes.

[34:32] J.J.: And it seems like the majority of the cast is just really horny.

[34:37] Olaf: Well, the Tim Robbins, Connie Nielsen, they're married.

[34:40] J.J.: That dynamic.

[34:41] Olaf: Their dynamic is we're not married yet.

[34:44] J.J.: We're two freshly in love.

[34:47] Olaf: People didn't have a problem with it, with their.

[34:50] J.J.: I don't have a problem with it either, but they're not the only ones.

[34:53] Olaf: Well, there's the other dude who gets like five minutes in the beginning of the movie.

[34:58] J.J.: He's trying to pick up all the random girls at the party.

[35:01] Olaf: Yeah. And then he gets his body ripped, ripped into like millions of pieces.

[35:05] J.J.: Yeah, yeah.

[35:06] Olaf: And then there's Jerry O'Connell, who's creating his perfect woman out of Eminem.

[35:10] J.J.: I you're right. I mean, exactly right.

[35:12] Olaf: Throughout the movie, it just keeps coming up and you're like, what?

[35:16] J.J.: Yeah, it didn't know.

[35:18] Olaf: It didn't know what it was, what type of movie it was trying to be, because for me, when I say it was two separate movies, it was, hey, we need to go to Mars and then, oh, well, now we have to go save Don Cheadle's character and now we get there and now it's about aliens.

[35:34] J.J.: And now I'm going to stay.

[35:37] Olaf: And throughout the whole movie, there's this very quick up and down, complete flip of tone that's constantly happening.

[35:46] J.J.: We go from fun, almost like cheesy sitcom camaraderie and humor.

[35:53] Olaf: And then you flip that immediately.

[35:55] J.J.: And it's like the somber, serious, sad.

[35:59] Olaf: It didn't know what it was doing.

[36:01] J.J.: Yeah. And it felt like a lot of the time they were really trying to force you to feel something as an audience member.

[36:09] Olaf: And it was like, but I don't.

[36:12] J.J.: You didn't shoot this in a way for me to feel something.

[36:15] Olaf: I understand.

[36:17] J.J.: You're telling me right now I need to be sad one moment.

[36:21] Olaf: And it's not even I wish it had been better.

[36:24] J.J.: But because obviously Gary Sinise is widow.

[36:27] Olaf: I mean, he's like he's lost his wife, who they were the like the brains of, like trying to get to Mars apparently.

[36:34] J.J.: And she dies and she gets sick.

[36:35] Olaf: And so there's a moment or two where you're wanting to invest in his emotional journey, but it's not strong enough.

[36:44] J.J.: No. To overpower everything else you've already said, because a lot of his stuff happens before we even meet him.

[36:52] Olaf: And people are just kind of like talking about it in the middle of their jokes and stuff.

[36:57] J.J.: And then when the wedding video and then when he shows up, they're all just like, oh, man, it sucks that you're not coming.

[37:03] Olaf: We're all happy and friends.

[37:05] J.J.: And then they leave.

[37:05] Olaf: And then he's like sad again.

[37:07] J.J.: And he puts his shoe print in the dirt.

[37:10] Olaf: And he's I'm just like, what?

[37:13] J.J.: I understand what you're trying to convey here, but.

[37:16] Olaf: Well, and then and then we get to the ending of the movie and he's going to stay because of the poorly CGI alien that's on.

[37:25] J.J.: They have old hands.

[37:27] Olaf: Yeah. And it's this whole thing.

[37:28] J.J.: It's like, what is is this?

[37:29] Olaf: Is this cocoon?

[37:31] J.J.: Is this close encounters?

[37:33] Olaf: Is this the abyss?

[37:35] J.J.: What? Oddly enough, the main the one character who had a consistency through a consistent through line was with Jerry O'Connell to me.

[37:43] Olaf: Like he was scared.

[37:44] J.J.: He was brainy. He didn't know what to do.

[37:46] Olaf: He was like he wasn't sure about anything that was going on.

[37:49] J.J.: Yeah, but he does the same thing where there's all this stuff happening and suddenly nobody seems concerned.

[37:58] Olaf: I feel like everyone should be way more concerned about things right now.

[38:02] J.J.: Like, well, and I feel like people have died.

[38:04] Olaf: There's a time clock.

[38:05] J.J.: This is breaking.

[38:07] Olaf: And this is everyone's just like this.

[38:10] J.J.: It's the Palma trying to be like, let's try to.

[38:13] Olaf: It almost felt like it was trying to be this artsy science fiction movie.

[38:19] J.J.: Sure. Yeah.

[38:20] Olaf: It's with like some sort of credibility and cachet.

[38:24] J.J.: But you got like Cheadle's team that shows up on the planet and all of a sudden it almost becomes like a sci fi thriller for a moment.

[38:33] Olaf: For like five minutes.

[38:34] J.J.: And then it's like, OK, we've got to get there to get them.

[38:37] Olaf: But nobody seems all that pressed for time.

[38:41] J.J.: Nobody seems. What are they going to do?

[38:42] Olaf: I mean, it's going to take them X amount of time.

[38:45] J.J.: Yeah. But the whole time they're not like, oh, my God, I hope Cheadle's OK.

[38:49] Olaf: And blah, blah, blah.

[38:49] J.J.: It's it's like, hey, let's have dancing lessons.

[38:53] Olaf: Let's have dancing lessons. Let's make out.

[38:56] J.J.: Jerry, why don't you make an M&M of your perfect woman?

[39:01] Olaf: Yeah, it's it's really tonally all over the place.

[39:06] J.J.: It is all over the place. I agree with you.

[39:08] Olaf: And that goes back to that goes back to the efficiency of what they're doing with their time with the movie, as opposed to Red Planet, where they have a clear objective getting to Mars because of, you know, they've trying to they've got algae and yeah, life signs, whatever it is that they're trying to do to make sure that they can save Earth or make Mars a bit.

[39:28] J.J.: Yeah. So what they explain at the beginning is that Earth is dying.

[39:32] Olaf: They send all this algae to Mars and to create moss that will create oxygen that they can live on.

[39:40] J.J.: And then all of a sudden, for whatever reason, all of that moss is.

[39:45] J.J. Gonzalez: Dying or disappearing and nobody knows why, so they're like, okay, we need to go check this out. And they do a really good job of while they're going there, while they're getting to Mars, they establish every character, archetypes, who's who. And they still have moments of levity. Right, the whiskey. It doesn't ever feel out of place or forced. It doesn't feel like, hey, we've forgotten what we're doing to have fun. They do a really good job of plugging in those moments. Val Kilmer's not forcing his personality because his character is that sort of lighthearted. The tone of Red Planet from a consistency standpoint, it never feels like multiple movies is much better than Mission to Mars. Well, just the friendship between Val Kilmer's character and Tom Sizemore's character is great.

Which is so funny because they hated each other during this movie. They got into this big old thing where Val Kilmer wouldn't get out of his trailer if Sizemore was on set. So there's a lot of moments in the movie where they're just cutting back and forth. It's funny because you can't tell. You can't. And there's plenty of times where the two of them are in the scenes together, in the wider shots, sitting next to each other. And their dynamic is great. It plays very well. You mentioned here, is it a forced love story? I would agree that the Carrie Ann Moss, Val Kilmer. I almost felt like the first encounter they have when she gets out of the shower. And they have this moment that they were, they used to be together and they'd broken up.

And it was like, get over it. There is at the beginning of the movie when they're all on the ship, Carrie Ann Moss is the only female. And it does seem like who, wait, who is she supposed to be with? Because it doesn't seem like she's with any of them. But then it also seems like everyone's interested in her and she might be interested in them. It's kind of that one was a little weird. So it is sort of fuzzy, but one would interpret, hey, she's just one of the guys, she's in command. I didn't have a problem with it either, except the fact that I was like, maybe she's with Benjamin Bratt and maybe she used to be with Val Kilmer for a moment. But then we moved on. But then, you know, Tom Sizemore's like, hey, hey, hey.

And I know it's that that was a little weird because there was no clear definition of relationships didn't need to be there. It didn't need to be there. It wasn't necessary. However, they do decide to try and create this chemistry or this relationship with Val Kilmer and Carrie Ann Moss. It wasn't distracting because they're in separate spaces. So it wasn't like, but neither one was pining for the other. Yeah. But to me, it still felt forced. Right. It's like we could have just had a mutual respect between two people. Absolutely. And care about each other and not have to have a romantic subplot sort of. Which they didn't really shove at us until the very last moment of the movie where she's going to get to know the janitor and the ending voiceover.

Her whole voiceover at the beginning at the end was very weird to me because I didn't know who she was talking to. Well, voiceovers in movies. But it almost seemed like was she talking to a captain's log? Was she doing that? I thought so. Okay. I mean, okay, I'll buy that because it's just like her tone and stuff. Both endings of these movies are terrible. Do we want to give points based on the tempo tone? That's Red Planet for me.

[43:33] Olaf Adsit: I agree. Yeah, it's Red Planet kind of gets the tone. Mission is all over the place. Mission is just a disaster. It is a disaster movie, man. And not in a good way. Mission to Mars is a movie with lofty goals. And I think no one with a clear sense of what to say. So they're just like, we'll say everything. Yeah, they were just trying to shove everything into the blender and just try to make something out of this, whatever this was. And really try to make it good. We're trying to ground it in these characters. But Red Planet was like, hey, we have one story to tell. And that's what we're going to do. We have one objective, one mission, there's going to be some action, there's going to be some adversity, some things.

The alien dog, Amy. I thought that was great. I thought so too. Would I rather have Amy from Congo or Amy from Red Planet? I don't know, it's a toss-up. I will say, I didn't feel the need for the alien species on Red Planet because you already had Amy the robot as the threat.

[44:47] J.J. Gonzalez: Well, that's why they didn't dwell on it. They just said, this is the thing that's going to give us what we need to save Earth. Sure. I mean, it did kill some people. It did. It was a threat. I liked the idea that Red Planet is kind of like a survival movie on Mars. And now we have this slasher character of a malfunctioned robot. And I thought, that's cool. Now it's this survival thriller on Mars. Yeah, right. And I like how Val Kilmer quickly explained it. It's like war games. Amy's going to take out one or injure one to slow us down and then pick us off one at a time. No, I thought it was, we're trying to polish off of something that's not that good. Well, I think Red Planet could have been better if it had focused more on that as opposed to trying to focus on some other things as well.

However, both endings are awful. How do you end these movies, I suppose? Red Planet, it's a voiceover where they're clearly going to go back to Earth and they have six months, so they're just going to be hanging out, getting to know each other. Fine. Mission to Mars has this, the three survivor, Don Cheadle, Connie Nielsen, Jerry O'Connell are on their way home, but then they see Gary Sinise, who's decided to go with the aliens to wherever it is that they're going. And you see this shot of this, whatever, I guess some sort of spacecraft, whatever, take off. And then Don Cheadle say, have a nice flight, Jim. The end. And that's it. I'm like, oh, this is trash. Once we get to Mars and they get past the security that killed the other people and they go in and now we're in the abyss part of the movie and we learn that humans are descendant from Martians or an alien race that has gone to other planets.

And they get in a circle and they hold hands. I'm like, what are we doing here? It's really weird because you do get this sense of I've seen this before and it was done way better in the abyss. And then it becomes close encounters because Gary Sinise is like, well, I'm going to go with them. And it's like this joyous thing because this is where I'm meant to be. Sure. Because I can't live on Earth because that's where I don't know. I have nothing. And maybe this would have been ultimate cheese factor. But at this point, I would have been OK with it is if the alien in Mission to Mars had taken the form of his wife, Kim Delaney. Like if she had somehow shown up, that would have been interesting.

I would be like, OK, this movie's already going sideways on us anyway. And it would have probably made it a little more compelling for Sinise to stay. Right. As opposed to I, this is where I'm always supposed to be. No, no. My wife and I just spent a long time researching Mars. So now I'm going to stay. It's like she said, we're going to look out, go to somewhere else and look out at what's ahead. No, man, you just haven't been able to get right here emotionally. But that's cool. It's yeah, it's bizarre. Do we want to try to award a point to which movie does Mars better?

[48:12] Olaf Adsit: Well, they spend way more time on Mars and Red Planet.

[48:15] J.J. Gonzalez: True. But I will say that all of the scenes of Mars in Mission to Mars, it just looks like they're out in the desert somewhere.

[48:25] Olaf Adsit: Right. Well, with Red Planet, because they're there looking for signs of life, they get an opportunity to see the out they're traversing the landscape a little bit more. I think they see the algae, they see the pits, the whole thing where they land on the planet. And then the whole thing bounces off. It feels like they're on another planet. I like how you're like, should we try? This is us. This is just us giving another point.

[48:52] J.J. Gonzalez: Well, I guess we're just trying to hammer home how wrong people were to like Mission to Mars. 30 percent should have gone to Red Planet, everybody, not 28. We were talking, we're talking about the endings of these movies. And do you remember at near the end of Red Planet, the CPR? Yes. When she gets back into where she punches his chest, he gets up and breathes. She punches him again. Yeah, that was bad editing. I wrote down questionable CPR. Well, I say questionable editing too, because she does the pumps. I mean, she's pumping his chest and then she pounds on his chest and he coughs like I'm awake. Yeah, but then she punches him again. I was like, dude, I will say I thought Terrence Stamp was wasted. They could have gotten anybody.

[49:55] Olaf Adsit: Yeah, they play that role. They gave him like one good scene to converse with Val Kilmer. And then that was really about it. And then one with Tom Sizemore. So he gets to really establish where he stands in his faith and stuff. I agree, though, not enough. You want more. Like you just said, he's a legend. He was amazing in totality of his career, that this was a very much a waste and maybe just a paycheck. I don't know. Like, hey, we're going to throw out this money to you. We don't have a lot in the budget, but we'll give you this. If he was doing a paycheck for like Jaws, the revenge. We're looking at you, Michael Caine. And he was the Hobie character instead of Michael Caine. It makes sense because he's in a majority of the movie, even though it's bad. This one, he's hardly in it. I just think it would have been better to have him in it more.

[50:36] J.J. Gonzalez: I agree, because one, I love Terrence Stamp. And two, you like his character. Yeah, he shouldn't have to die, especially this way, you know? Yeah. And that's me going back to the whole like if they just focused on more of a survival thriller. Yeah, you have to crash on the planet. And now you've got the rogue robot, but the robot kills him, not the landing circling back to the cast. My point goes to Mission to Mars.

[51:08] Olaf Adsit: Really? Well, because we're saying here, man, they didn't give Terrence Stamp enough time. The way they kill him was dumb. They we wanted more of him. They gave us half the movie with Tim Robbins before they offed him. Yeah, but I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing. But they did Terrence Stamp a disservice by getting rid of him too quickly and not giving him enough to do. Well, at this point, sure, we'll give it doesn't matter. It was a landslide victory by Red Planet anyway. So, yeah. So Red Planet takes this competition seven to four, which is questionable. I could be easily nine to two. Yeah. I mean, we gave a couple of points like this casting one we gave. And I mean, it made money. But that was really it. So that brings us to the end of our second episode of Versus. I really like these, by the way.

[52:04] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, it's fun. We're going to have more of these, everybody. Like I said, not just similar movies that came out at similar times about similar topics. We're going to do reboots. We're going to old versus new stuff. So stay tuned for the next one. I'm not sure what it will be or when it will be, but it's coming down. And until then, to be continued.

[52:24] Johnny Clay: Back to the Movie Theater is hosted by J.J. Gonzalez and Olaf Adsit. Produced by me, Johnny Clay, J.J. Gonzalez and Olaf Adsit. Theme song and incidental music by The Dimes. Visit us at bttmtpodcast.com for trivia, playalongs, merch, and more. That's bttmtpodcast.com. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok and find us on YouTube at Back to the Movie Theater with J.J. and Olaf.