Ep. 42 - The Franchise Who Lived! Part 3

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[0:01] J.J.: So I had a question for you. I was driving somewhere this week, and I'm listening to music, and I was listening to film score stuff.

[0:12] Olaf: Ah, I love listening to film scores.

[0:14] J.J.: And I knew this about you, and I know this about you, I should say. So my question to you is, if you had to pick a composer to score your life, montage style, whatnot, is there a composer that you would go, this is the one, this is the person that I would want to score my life?

[0:33] Olaf: I really only have two names that come to mind.

[0:36] J.J.: Okay.

[0:37] Olaf: The first is not the most accurate one, but who wouldn't want John Williams to score their life?

[0:45] J.J.: Sure.

[0:46] Olaf: You know?

[0:47] J.J.: Yeah, I get that.

[0:48] Olaf: He's just so much more grand and bombastic, and I don't feel that that's my life. I don't feel like I've had that many grand adventures to deserve that kind of soundtrack.

[1:02] Olaf: The second name that comes up, which would probably be a little bit more accurate to my life, I would say is Thomas Newman.

[1:10] J.J.: Thank you. Okay.

[1:11] Olaf: And not that I was expecting that answer, but I was listening to his music when the question popped up into my head to ask you. He gets into my head and into my soul with a lot of his scores, and I'm just like, how does he do this?

[1:29] Olaf: He has a really good sensibility of, like you said, putting you in a space where you're feeling all of these emotions. He has a way of conducting your emotions with music, and I love his stuff.

[1:47] Olaf: I also think that maybe Danny Elfman could also be a good runner up to score my life because it has that oddball kind of strange feel, which I don't know. At the moment, I guess if I had to pick a second, it would probably be Alan Silvestri.

[2:04] J.J.: I mean, he's great too, but again, he's always more bombastic, and I'm just like, that's not me. But he blends it really well.

[2:13] Olaf: I feel like there is some sort of everyday quality to some of his stuff. He's the John Williams of the string instruments because John Williams is all about the brass.

[2:24] J.J.: He's all about the strings.

[2:27] Olaf: I had a feeling you were going to lean that way.

[2:29] J.J.: Yeah, he would probably be the most accurate for my life.

[2:33] Olaf: Okay, but that's not what we're here to talk about.

[2:36] J.J.: Well, guys, that means it's time to get back into it. So we're going to go back to the movie theater. Welcome in. Grab a seat, everybody.

[3:05] J.J.: Today we are talking about Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban.

[3:12] Olaf: Movie number three in our journey through the franchise of Harry Potter. This is my favorite book of the series and my favorite movie as well.

[3:23] J.J.: Yeah, it's probably in my top three of the Potter movies. They make such huge leaps from the first two to this one, not only in source material, but also in how it's brought to the screen that are just executed to me so well on both fronts.

[3:40] Olaf: Well, this is the first movie to not come out the following year from the last movie. So they've had a couple of years to work on the project. The kids obviously are growing up. So they're coming into their own and they're learning to really respect the art of acting. And it actually starts to sink in for them, the caliber of actors that they're working with.

[4:05] J.J.: Absolutely. I think when you're 11 and 12, it's like, oh, it's so-and-so. I'm acting with Maggie Smith. I'm acting with Richard Harris. OK, cool. Well, Daniel Radcliffe said that for the first two and most of the third movie, he thought that Alan Rickman hated him. He found out later that Alan had started to realize that Daniel was taking this seriously and they became great friends. And Alan would constantly go see him in all of his stage plays and stuff like that.

[4:40] Olaf: Well, what an amazing opportunity for all of these kids really to be able to be thrown into what is essentially a masterclass with every adult actor they're working with.

[4:52] J.J.: Yeah. I mean, you're working with all of the masters.

[4:56] Olaf: Yes. All these legends. It's amazing. And it continues. It doesn't stop. We laid out the first two and the cast that started this and sort of continues through this franchise. But we just keep adding them. We just keep adding more legends and masters to this already amazing group of actors with the third movie.

[5:18] J.J.: So let's get into it. OK, Prisoner of Azkaban came out in 2004. So we had a two year gap from the last one. This one is the Rotten Tomatoes score is 91 percent.

[5:31] Olaf: OK. Yeah. Nice. The audience score, though, 86 percent.

[5:35] J.J.: That's ludicrous. I always feel like most people prefer this movie over the majority of the franchise.

[5:41] Olaf: To use a spell in the movie, it's ridiculous. Ridiculous is what they say.

[5:46] J.J.: Yes, that's exactly what that is. The director of this is no longer Christopher Columbus. He's only a producer on this one before he steps away completely. Alfonso Cuaron, who has done so many amazing movies. Gravity. Children of Men is some examples. Roma. He's done a lot.

[6:06] Olaf: There was a list of directors that were sort of being tossed around before it eventually ended up in Cuaron's hands. We still get John Williams as our composer. Last time. Yeah.

[6:17] J.J.: But this is him like he's back. Yeah, he's in full swing running the whole show.

[6:23] Olaf: And then we were talking about adding incredible masters of their craft and continuing to. We've got in this joining the giant cast of characters. We have Gary Oldman as Sirius Black. I mean, just incredible.

[6:39] J.J.: And not enough of Gary Oldman. True.

[6:43] Olaf: It would have been nice to see more of him and his character in this franchise. But even in this movie, like his presence is there throughout the whole film. But you don't see him until the last 30 minutes, 40 minutes.

[6:55] J.J.: Yeah. You're really just seeing like newspaper clippings. Right.

[6:58] Olaf: And stuff. And even in that 40, he's getting maybe half of that. But every I mean, it's a genius choice. Yeah.

[7:06] J.J.: We get David Thouless, Professor Lupin.

[7:10] Olaf: Another great choice and the only choice for this particular character. Like Alfonso Cuaron like picked him based off of something else. And because I think Thouless was supposed to be or it was at one point going to be Quarrel. I believe he had auditioned for it.

[7:29] J.J.: Right. He auditioned for Professor Quarrel. Now, David Thouless, I didn't register him in my mind and on screen until Seven Years in Tibet. That was really the first time that I was like, I clocked him and I'm like, OK, I see this guy. And now I start seeing him in other stuff.

[7:44] Olaf: Yeah, I think the first. Oh, boy. The first two things I saw him in, I think, were both movies that came out the same year. One of them was Dragonheart, which someone would say a guilty pleasure. I love Dragonheart, but didn't clock him in it.

[8:00] J.J.: Right.

[8:04] Olaf: The other one, Island of Dr. Moreau with Val Kilmer and Marlon Brando. He's the lead.

[8:09] J.J.: Oh, I know. And I don't think I saw that till much later.

[8:15] Olaf: Right. Right. But I can't remember the first time I watched that. Wow. What an interesting movie that is. We'll have to get into that later.

[8:24] Olaf: Continuing on, we get Emma Thompson as Professor Trelawney.

[8:29] J.J.: So great. I mean, she doesn't do a lot. There's more in the book for her, but she's wonderful.

[8:34] Olaf: She comes in and she nails her assignment and she goes away.

[8:39] J.J.: And yeah, yeah. You want you want people like that. Listening to people talk about great character actors that just come into like television or whatever, and they're just there for the day playing a character that I've heard to them referred to as comedy assassins.

[8:52] Olaf: OK, they come in, they kill with their joke and then they're gone and they're out the door.

[9:03] J.J.: Yeah, no, it's true. She's I would say in this particular case, just an assassin and what she's doing. I mean, there are some moments of levity for her. She's the levity portion of this film.

[9:15] Olaf: Yeah, it's not even really Hagrid. It's it's more her that gets that assignment. And she's great. Yeah. She's not trying too hard.

[9:23] J.J.: No, she doesn't look like she's trying at all. And she blends into that world so well.

[9:29] Olaf: The glasses and the choice of hairstyle definitely help.

[9:33] J.J.: Yeah, absolutely. We also get Timothy Spall.

[9:37] Olaf: Yeah. Who honestly, the first time I remember ever clocking him in a movie was The Last Samurai.

[9:45] J.J.: OK, I'm trying to think the first time I saw Timothy Spall because he's he's I think before Harry Potter, he's known as, oh, that guy that's in that thing, you know, he's one of those guys, that character actor. But in this because of the weight of these movies and the popularity, it's like, you know, now he's.

[10:02] Olaf: Yeah. You know, and Seven Years in Tibet, that's when after anything he did after that, I was like, oh, I recognize that guy. He's that's David Douglas. He's that guy from that thing.

[10:14] J.J.: Yeah, he's that guy.

[10:23] Olaf: Yeah. And then we also have Michael Gambon taking over the role of Professor Dumbledore. I mentioned and we'll talk a little bit about it when we get into the film. Just like credit to him, because it's such a drastic difference in approach to the character of Dumbledore.

[10:34] J.J.: Yeah, me just energy wise. Look, all of it.

[10:37] Olaf: Yeah. So this movie is pretty interesting. I mean, it's it's a much darker tone from the first two. But from the jump to I don't think it was so much of a leap from Chamber of Secrets. I think they've done a great job of taking whatever level they got to in the previous film of dark and just taking it up like another notch so that it's not like, whoa, too much.

[11:00] J.J.: Well, there's a lot of advantages that Cuaron has here. And he even he even mentions that he's like Chris Columbus set up the world. He set up the kitchen. He gave me the ingredients. All I had to do was, you know, follow the recipe and create this this meal, so to speak.

[11:17] Olaf: Yeah. He also has the benefit of these actors being older, the kids anyway.

[11:22] J.J.: Oh, absolutely. So the shots can be longer. The shots can be longer. They can breathe a little more. He's able to communicate better with them and what he wants.

[11:33] Olaf: It's funny. He'd never read the books right beforehand. And then Guillermo del Toro is actually the one who convinced him to do the job.

[11:43] J.J.: Right. And he also said, don't be stupid. Read them immediately.

[11:48] Olaf: Well, because because Chris Columbus ultimately was the one who's like, I want him to do this, because prior to like prior to Azkaban, he had shot this movie called Y Tu Mamá También about teenagers and sex and all this other stuff. And it's like, why am I why are you asking me to do this movie? And the idea was, well, because it's these kids now that are into their teenage years and navigating certain emotions, which we kind of see subtle things in this movie. But it's still navigating the emotional angsty elements that he does a fantastic job with navigating.

[12:25] J.J.: He really does. And the franchise as a whole does an amazing job. I mentioned this in the last episode, how it's just did an incredible job of capturing what it feels like to be a kid growing up and going through these phases. It just does a really great job of.

[12:45] J.J.: Fun fact, Harry Melling, who plays Dudley Dursley, he had apparently lost so much weight that he was almost recast and they ended up just putting him in a fat suit. From this movie on, any time I've seen him, I'm like, I can't tell. Unless he puts the weight back on, which I seriously doubt.

[13:07] Olaf: No, I don't think he does because if you've seen both of those movies, he's like a whale. It's incredible. Like he's not in it a lot, obviously, in this movie, but I was looking and I'm like, I can't tell.

[13:18] J.J.: No, I never would have thought that either until I stumbled upon that fact, too. I was like, whoa, good on him for losing the weight, but man, and good on the film production for not recasting him. Clearly they can, you know, work around it and I'm glad they did. And then we mentioned this before, but with this movie, this was when they decided we're gonna switch to an 18-month cycle to give the directors the amount of time they need to finish. And they do that up until like the last three movies. Now, obviously, they shot the seventh one straight and back to back, even the sixth one. But you're right, because by the time they get to six, it's the same director. But for, yeah, for the next three, you know, they definitely give them more time, which I prefer.

Like you said, it gives, like I said, it gives the actors time to grow up a little bit and handle the material, which makes it, I would imagine, easier for the director to take longer shots and let the scenes breathe more and be able to do more.

[14:22] J.J.: Cuaron said this, this was one of the most fun shoots he's ever done and he had hoped to come back to do another movie, but it just never worked out that way. He didn't feel like he had enough time to do the next movie, so he had turned that down.

[14:39] Olaf: Oh, okay.

[14:40] J.J.: But he had hoped that later on he would have been able to. They would have come back around. And then Sir Michael Gambon, he admitted that he never saw a point in reading the books to get an idea of the character of Dumbledore, which is... Maybe it shows?

[14:56] Olaf: I don't know. I don't either. I mean, again, I didn't read the books, so I don't really know how, like, aloof and stuff...

[15:05] J.J.: Well, clearly, they do such an amazing job of pulling source material onto the screen that Dumbledore's character becomes more integral to the plot and to the story and everything as we get moving, that it would have been hard to imagine or see Richard Harris's energy that he brought to the character translated into the later books and films, because Dumbledore is way more involved.

[15:33] Olaf: Yeah, and I think Gambon does such a great job because he has this gravitas and this seriousness, but the soft side and this teacher side and this fun mischievous and aloof side...

[15:48] J.J.: Which Harris does a good job. Harris did a really nice job of showing the fun, but it was super subtle.

[15:53] Olaf: Yeah, it was very subtle. It was like, you had to really look for the twinkle in the wink, you know, that Richard Harris is doing. Gambon really brings this sense of, I know everything that's going on and nothing gets by me, but I'm still gonna have fun.

[16:09] J.J.: And he's not even in a lot of it.

[16:11] Olaf: No, but again, an assassin. He shows up.

[16:14] J.J.: Exactly. No, that's a great analogy, because he's that pure definition of what that is for this movie. It's a shame that Richard Harris passed away and they had to recast, but I think they couldn't have cast a better Dumbledore. And there were a lot of people that they had offered it to Sean Connery at one point and he turned it down.

[16:35] Olaf: Yeah, it's so funny. The amount of incredible franchises that Sean Connery has turned down, mostly because he didn't understand it.

[16:46] J.J.: He didn't get it. And that bit him, because then he took The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen as his last movie. And he did The Avengers, not the comic book, but the TV show Avengers movie as the bad guy.

[17:01] Olaf: Which I loved him in, by the way. Guilty pleasure. I can't wait for you to talk about that.

[17:06] J.J.: But yeah, it's just so funny. He's passed on so many huge roles because he was like, I don't get it. But anyway.

[17:18] Olaf: Getting into the movie, we see the Warner Brothers logo, and we're starting that trend of getting the theme and the darkness and what we're in for. Here's the thing. Again, I'm no scholar of Harry Potter. I love the movies and I'll watch them over and over, but I don't dig deep into the mythology. And I have not read all of them. As far as I'm aware, it is a serious crime for students under a certain age to perform magic outside of Hogwarts.

[17:50] J.J.: And they mention that as well. But right out of the gate, Warner Brothers logo is still coming past the screen. And Harry Potter is under a bedsheet doing the magic. And it's a serious crime. I'm like, well, where do we draw the line?

[18:09] Olaf: Well, sure. Is it a misdemeanor? Is it a felony? Is it like slap on the wrist? As far as I'm aware, no magic outside of...

[18:16] J.J.: Well, clearly, he stretches this rule and still just gets a slap on the wrist. But the very beginning and the very first shot and the very last shot, it's a serious crime. It's a serious crime. It's a serious crime. It's a serious crime. It's a serious crime. It's a serious crime. It's a serious crime. The very first shot and the very last shot, I did not like. The first shot was cooler than the last. But the first shot of him trying to illuminate under the sheet, I get it. Maybe you're foreshadowing. Because he seems to not have a problem with it later. He's struggling. He's practicing, I guess. But he's struggling. But again, it also sets up him trying to fake like he's sleeping so Dursley doesn't see him.

[19:03] Olaf: Something that I noticed that I don't know if it correlates with his abilities or not. It always seems like when he's whispering a spell, it doesn't work. It only works when he's yelling it.

[19:11] J.J.: I don't know. Except later in the movie when he's using his wand to read the map. He's got no problem there. He didn't wake anybody up yelling that. But maybe at that point he's got that particular spell down.

[19:24] Olaf: I guess. So we always tend to start with the Dursleys. They make quick work here. We're not around long. We meet one of the greatest in the pantheon of terrible people. Vernon's sister comes in and she's one of the worst people ever.

[19:38] J.J.: I mean, she's just awful. The actress is brilliant. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe she was in the movie version of Matilda as the headmaster.

[19:55] Olaf: Would not surprise me. Not at all. She's fantastic. You loathe this character in the very short amount of time she's on the screen. The minute she walks in, you can tell that Vernon and Petunia are terrified of her.

[20:10] J.J.: I don't even think the husband speaks at all like her husband. Barely. I don't think he has one lick of dialogue. I can't remember now. Neither of them speak much. It's all her. She just comes in talking, guns blazing, just spewing out awful, terrible hate.

[20:29] Olaf: Terrible. And then she does the worst thing possible and starts insulting Potter's family and specifically his mother. My memory of her character in the book is fuzzy at best. My question is, what motivation does she have to be so cruel to this kid who she's rarely at any point had any contact with?

[20:52] J.J.: Unfortunately, there are people like that in the real world.

[20:55] Olaf: I know. I don't know what their motivations are either. Except to feel better about themselves.

[21:00] J.J.: It's clearly insecurities. But yes, he does a number on her where the first sign of borderline playfulness of books one and two and sort of like darkness of book three, even in this moment where she starts to expand and then head out of the house out the window, because he's not remorseful in any way.

[21:25] Olaf: No, but he's in this period of childhood where you're experiencing anger. It's the inside out before inside out. We're seeing all of these emotions. It's that puberty really setting in and you're all over the place. And they're showing it in this way, which I thought was wonderfully done and to credit to Rowling as a writer, but also to Steve Kloves, the screenwriter, and then just sort of making it all happen. I really do enjoy the spooky tone of this movie.

[21:57] J.J.: Oh, yeah. The fact that Harry decides to run away. Not knowing.

[22:01] Olaf: Not knowing. And he's in the dark and Cuaron just creates this scary, spooky atmosphere with the playground behind him. And you've got directly in front of you this bench and bushes and then you see these eyes of a scary black dog.

[22:22] J.J.: It's like Tim Burton-esque.

[22:24] Olaf: Yeah, it feels very Burton.

[22:26] J.J.: And then to add to that feel, we get the night bus, which is an amazing chapter in the book as well. And I thought they did a great job of bringing that to the screen. There are certain things of the book that I do remember. And the bus, I was very excited when that scene happened. It was just another addition to this wizarding world that I just enjoy.

[22:53] Olaf: I love how they managed to work these things in, add to the foundation of this and expand on this world in a way that, yeah, why not? If wizards really exist, why would there not be this? From a production standpoint, they're kind of playing with house money here because they've got two bangers under their belt. Very successful movies. Don't worry, we're going to get the bus thing right. We're going to get the Dementors right. We're going to be able to bring those.

[23:22] J.J.: When they finally get on the, well, he's on the bus, he gets to where he's supposed to go. And then, going back to your rule-breaking of the magic, he's in what, Fudge's office? Is that Cornelius Fudge's office?

[23:36] Olaf: Yeah.

[23:37] J.J.: And Fudge is like, so you did this thing. We found her floating somewhere. We've deflated her. She's fine. Water under the bridge. Yeah, we're not even going to slap your wrist. We're just going to...

[23:49] Olaf: And at that point, Potter does mention, I'm not allowed to do magic outside the school grounds. He's like, ah, it's fine. But at this point, I think we've already just learned that Sirius Black has escaped Azkaban prison, the first ever to escape.

[24:07] J.J.: Right, yeah. And according to the whispers and the newspapers, this murderous, evil person is also a supporter of Voldemort.

[24:18] Olaf: Right. So I'm wondering if the head of the ministry is so blasé about him expanding this terrible person and doing magic outside.

[24:29] J.J.: I think it's because of Sirius Black, and he knows the connection between the two.

[24:35] Olaf: Of course. I mean, it seems like everybody, every adult does.

[24:39] J.J.: Everyone but Harry.

[24:40] Olaf: Yeah, exactly. Everybody knows that Sirius Black was friends with the Potters and went to the school and all of these things.

[24:47] J.J.: Yeah. What's funny is he's at the Leaky Cauldron. Apparently he has his own office set up at the Leaky Cauldron when Potter shows up from the night bus. They just got to get him to the school. So how we introduce the returning characters is not that important. But he wakes up the next day, and Hermione and Ron are there. The whole Weasley clan is there. They're staying there as well.

[25:14] Olaf: So they quickly get him on the bus. Not enough Julie Walters. We get one scene where she, which is important, she's got Scabbers the rat. She's like, run! Don't forget your rat. But before they leave for the school, I just want to point out, because this is a Cuaron staple.

[25:29] J.J.: Does this incredible long take at the Leaky Cauldron with Mr. Weasley and Harry, and he's talking to him. He's doing all of this exposition with Harry about Sirius Black and the threat that he is and all of this stuff, moving all around this busy kitchen area with not just the Weasley clan at the tables doing crazy stuff in the back, but regular wizarding patrons as well. It's incredible, and he is such a master of those kind of long takes. And he gives it to Mark Williams, who's the only scene he's in as Mr. Weasley, and he's tasked to give this explanation for everybody.

[26:17] Olaf: Yeah, and kills it. It's just a great scene, and I wanted to talk about that before we jumped ahead.

[26:25] J.J.: Yeah, you're right. We get that foreshadowing of Scabbers, who now suddenly has altered his appearance a little. His ears are a little more perkier and fuzzier and stuff to match what is to come. That scene, though, on the train, we've already had tonal shifts, the walking on the street, the bench, the swings, the bus, all of the Leaky Cauldron. All of these things just to gradually prepare you for the Dementor who's coming onto the train and the visual of it with the window icing over. Wonderful. Super spooky.

[27:05] Olaf: I wanted to do a counter on how many times Harry faints in this movie.

[27:10] J.J.: Oh, I had a note about that. I had it near the end, but I wrote down Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Passing Out. I was trying to think of what that would be. I had this like, what should the name of this be? That's about right. Yeah, he faints so many times in this movie.

[27:32] Olaf: It's got to be at least 10. Oh my gosh. I should have counted it when I was re-watching it, but it's so many times that, yeah, I wrote that down near the end of my notes. Yeah, the fade out of the eyes and then the fade in of him waking up and it's somebody new above him trying to wake him up. You always hear that whistle, scream as he's passing out. Just one faint after another. It was crazy.

[28:00] J.J.: One spell. Yeah, exactly. We find out that Hagrid's a teacher now.

[28:05] Olaf: Yes, he got promoted. And first day does not go well. A lot of those things get cut because they expound way more on the book about why he gets disciplined, all these things. In the movie, they set it up with Buckbeak and then you don't see Hagrid really till later and they're like, he's going to—

[28:23] J.J.: Buckbeak. Buckbeak, thank you. He's sentenced to death or whatever. They dive a little bit more to that in the book.

[28:31] Olaf: Yeah, so we made a hippogriff for the first time and it's named Buckbeak.

[28:35] J.J.: Buckbeak. Rightly so, gets upset when Malfoy just runs up there in a threatening manner and he gets a light scrape on his arm. But because of that, Lucius Malfoy steps in at the Ministry of Magic and orders the death of Buckbeak.

[28:52] Olaf: Yeah, and then we're at school for a bit. What I love that they did with this movie is unlike the first two movies, it's a lot of in studio. They do a really great job of being outside a lot more in this movie using real life locations to create the setting of the movie, which is beautiful.

[29:13] J.J.: I really liked how they marked all the seasons changing with the Whomping Willow.

[29:20] Olaf: Yeah, I thought that was a nice touch too.

[29:22] J.J.: Yeah, that was really nice. Yeah, we get to see all of the different seasons and we really get to see winter this time with the snow.

[29:30] Olaf: With the snow. And we get to learn about the Shrieking Shack. And throughout the movie, there's just this big mystery about Sirius Black and Harry's learning that Sirius apparently gave up the location of his parents and betrayed them. And he finds out that he was the godfather. And just all these terrible things are coming to light about this guy who's after him.

[29:55] J.J.: Right, that a teenager, 13-year-old has to then—

[29:58] Olaf: Come to grips with, yeah.

[29:59] J.J.: Come to grips with, thank you. In addition to having all of these emotions, to credit to Radcliffe, who said this movie and the experience he had in shooting this movie is what made him go, this is what I want to be doing for the rest of my life.

[30:16] Olaf: One of the things I really love reading about when it comes to Gary Oldman and I think Branagh, some of these actors that are brought in, a lot of times they say, one of the main reasons I did it was because my kids wanted me to do it. My kids were an integral part to me deciding to do this.

[30:36] J.J.: Now, Oldman had a lot of other reasons too. I think he said, I was 42. I was out of work. I was divorced. I needed something to do.

[30:43] Olaf: No, he said Harry Potter kind of saved his life.

[30:47] J.J.: Yeah, and then Batman.

[30:48] Olaf: Yeah, because he was able to do that and Batman at home because he had gone through this divorce and he had three boys, I believe. Three or four boys and he couldn't take these jobs that took him away. He needed to be at home and this and Batman allowed him to do that.

[31:06] J.J.: We get one of the coolest additions to the story and that's the Marauders map.

[31:12] Olaf: Yeah. I think it's so cool.

[31:14] J.J.: I solemnly swear that I'm up to no good. Mischief managed. And the visual of it is really cool.

[31:22] Olaf: Yeah. Just how they've got the footprints moving on the name tag sort of moving across the map.

[31:27] J.J.: Yeah, I love that thing. It's really cool.

[31:30] Olaf: Yeah, I thought they did a great job of bringing it to life. One of the things I really also like continuing that theme of third year, third defense against the dark arts teacher coming in, but the difference between him and Quirrell and Lockhart is there's more history with Potter's parents. There's more to do. He's brought in and becomes a father figure.

[31:56] J.J.: Yes. And we get to see that throughout the movie as the seasons are changing. There's so many scenes of just him and Harry really bonding and this growing relationship between them. And it's such a sweet evolution that we get to see.

[32:13] Olaf: And also, I would argue that Lupin is the first and probably the only dark arts teacher that we get in the movie who should be the teacher of the class.

[32:20] J.J.: He's competent at his job.

[32:28] Olaf: He's actually doing his job.

[32:30] J.J.: Yeah. Yeah. He's the first time we see him actually teaching the class.

[32:35] Olaf: Yeah. Which is a great scene when they've got the bog in the wardrobe and Snape comes out, which we talk about Alan Rickman just about all the time in these movies, which we should. And what's amazing is I don't know if he has less to do in this. I feel like he has a lot.

[32:55] J.J.: Well, I don't know. We don't see him for a sizable amount of the movie, but the small times that we do, it's like, oh, he is there. But then we get more of him near the end.

[33:09] Olaf: Right. But every time he's there, he's got things to do, even when he's being used as a lesson, a learning tool for the kids to use the ridiculous.

[33:16] J.J.: Brilliant. You know, I mean, coming out and then, you know, transforming. But you're right. Like when we do see him later and then, of course, towards the end of the movie, he's got more to say or more to do. And I'm laughing because we talk about Harry just breaking rules left and right. Clearly does that to Snape later.

[33:41] Olaf: Oh, yeah. And we're not there yet.

[33:42] J.J.: Yeah. It just takes him out and we'll get to that in a second. But I thought you're right. Lupin is the only one at the moment at this point who should be the teacher. And it's a shame that he for circumstances that we find out has to then he's a werewolf.

[33:57] Olaf: Everybody. If you weren't sure if he was a werewolf or not, they really do a heavy handed job when he can't come to work one day and Snape shows up as the teacher and he's just like we're skipping all of the lessons. And we're talking about werewolves because this is my way of telling you he is a werewolf. He can't come to work because he was a werewolf. I should have this job. And that he may or may not be aware that Sirius is innocent.

[34:25] J.J.: Right. I mean.

[34:26] Olaf: Oh, I don't think based on how when he shows up in the Shrieking Shack, Sirius not. I'm sorry, Snape. When Snape shows up at the Shrieking Shack, it is clear that not only does he think that Sirius is guilty of all of the things that everyone says, but he had suspected and was proven right that Lupin was in cahoots with—

[35:02] J.J.: Let me ask you this question because you went into this having not read the book.

[35:06] Olaf: Yeah.

[35:07] J.J.: So when we finally see Sirius Shrieking Shack, Lupin comes in. They're being very like cryptic and, you know, sinister with their back and forth.

[35:18] Olaf: Yeah.

[35:18] J.J.: Were you thinking, oh, man, Lupin is bad. Sirius is bad.

[35:22] Olaf: I had no reason to think Sirius was good.

[35:26] J.J.: Right. Because I'd never read that and I didn't know any of the spoilers. So they shot that scene so well to continue to make you think that they're there for Harry.

[35:37] Olaf: Right.

[35:37] J.J.: Right up until the very moment that they reveal that it's not that. And it's like, oh, wow. Yeah, that was that was really fun. I love discovering this stuff in the movie and not like beforehand. I hate spoilers so much.

[35:55] Olaf: But it's not just like, oh, somebody spoiled it for me. It's just like when the studio spoils it.

[36:02] J.J.: Right. Oh, and they did a really good job of not doing that. Clearly, I would say probably 50 percent, maybe more of had read the book going in. I don't know.

[36:13] Olaf: But there is that other heavy percentage of people that hadn't. And both of them masterclass. I mean, just watching these two have this heated exchange for Thule to be so snarky. He's like, fine, you can do it, but not until you tell Harry why. You know, it's like we still haven't revealed that it's Peter Pettigrew.

[36:33] J.J.: Yeah. No, it's incredible. Um, and then Snape comes in and he's like, I was right. You are evil and you are in cahoots. And they're like, you don't know what's going on, Snape.

[36:47] Olaf: Right. But I love like I watch movies now a lot with the closed captions on. Not because my hearing is bad. It's because they they are the volume. They do this on purpose where they the music's really loud. The dialogue really is not.

[37:03] J.J.: Yeah, I hate that, too. But the dialogue that Sirius and Lupin have when they're going after Snape is so great. Sirius is just digging into. Well, he's been he's he's a fool. He's he's so used to it by now. It's just part of his, you know, how he does it. All of it is so fun and funny, but it can be missed because everything's happening so fast.

[37:26] Olaf: So Harry straight up just spells Snape, you know, into the bed. Bed frame comes down. We hope he's OK because nobody seems to go check on him until he comes out of the tree later to help the kids. Snape's cool with this. We clearly don't get a resolution on it. Um, here's my thought.

[37:48] J.J.: Oh, I do want to point out that now, having watched all of the movies and learning about well, Snape's secret and and what he knows, what he knows and his relationship with the Potters and the Potter's friends and all of that stuff. It makes the scene in the Shrieking Shack when he shows up that much more rich and poignant.

[38:14] J.J.: He has never liked Sirius or Lupin or Harry's dad because he was bullied by them and he was in love with Harry's mom. To see that play out in that scene, knowing that information just makes it even more like, oh wow, wow. Well, even Rowling said that there were certain scenes and how they were shot that foreshadowed events. Yeah, this really foreshadows a lot of the final events, which no one knew at the time other than Rowling.

[38:47] Olaf: Yeah, because she was still writing the books. It was impressive. But to get back to Snape and getting taken out, they do such a good job of not giving him time to emotionally react to what just happened to him. Because as soon as he gets out of the tree, we've got a werewolf and then we've got Sirius who's turned back into a dog to fight the werewolf. There's a lot going on and Sirius has to put all that aside to immediately be like, gotta take care of the kids. So I don't think there's ever a time where he got over that.

[39:27] J.J.: No, I agree. But by the time we get to Goblet, it's a summer and it's a new year. And you see always, there's always this frustration he has with Harry. So that's just another nuance, another level that's been added to that frustration is, you did that to me and I can't do anything about it. And just when you thought, as we are about two, maybe a little under two hours into the movie, guess what, everybody? It's also a time travel movie. It feels like we're coming to the end of the movie. And then there's this whole other plot that's just been slightly hinted at just ever so slightly throughout the movie.

[40:11] Olaf: And it's shot so well, because when you go back through the time travel part of it with Hermione and Harry, you could do a comparison and not notice. And it's really good. It's wonderfully done. And this is another moment where right before they travel back in time, where Gambon as Dumbledore, you get to see a little bit of his personality as Dumbledore come through. I was trying, as I was watching the scene in the infirmary hospital, where he's like, three clicks will do, dah, dah, dah, come back before the last chime. I was trying to picture Harris in this scene. And I could, it just would have been so different.

[40:51] J.J.: Yeah. Especially at the end when they run up to him and they're like, we did it. And he's like, did what? Bye. And he's like skipping, practically skipping down the stairs. All of the time travel stuff with Dumbledore, with Gambon made me go, okay, yeah, he's going to be, this is going to be fun to see him in the later iterations, in the later movies, because that scene where he's talking to Hermione and Harry before they go back. And then even when they're back in time and they're at Hagrid's and he's stalling for them. You know, he knows.

[41:21] Olaf: You know, he knows. And he's like, look at over here, I'm going to go get some brandy or whatever. It's like executioner, your services are no longer required. You know, have a great day. It was really cool. And I love the time travel element of the book and of the movie. They did it so well because, you know, there's lots of time travel movies out there and some are better than others. And especially if you're only going to like shoehorn this in at the very end of the movie. What a great way to do it. I did think because apparently Professor McGonagall gave Hermione this time Turner.

[41:56] J.J.: Yeah, we don't. And in the book, I'm sure they explain why. But boy, it sure seems like an awfully powerful thing to just give a kid.

[42:05] Olaf: But who are you giving it to, right?

[42:07] J.J.: True.

[42:07] Olaf: You're giving it to the most responsible one there.

[42:10] J.J.: She's using it just to learn more classes.

[42:14] Olaf: Right. Exactly.

[42:16] J.J.: And the opposite would be, Harry, you should not have the Marauder's Map because your personality or just like your dad, you're always getting into trouble. I'm going to keep this in my office. You have no business walking around with this thing. Too much power.

[42:32] Olaf: Yeah. You know, which it's such a touching moment when he goes to see Lupin at the end. And he's packing up. You find out he wasn't fired. He wasn't let go.

[42:43] J.J.: No.

[42:44] Olaf: But he.

[42:45] J.J.: He resigns.

[42:46] Olaf: He resigns because he knows people like Lucius Malfoy are going to let everyone know that he is a werewolf.

[42:56] J.J.: Right. And your kids aren't safe.

[42:57] Olaf: And your kids aren't going to be safe and they're not going to. So he knew the writing was on the wall, even though he was allowed to stay and continue to teach. He was like, it's better that I go, which is a real shame because we get our first sense of a real teacher who cares about teaching and he cares about his students and unfortunately have to walk away from that. It was very touching.

[43:22] J.J.: It was. I thought David Thouless, I thought he does a masterful job. We fortunately get to see more of him as the movies and books progress. Same with Oldman. I want more. He's probably in what, 15 minutes, maybe.

[43:38] Olaf: It's not a lot, but you feel his presence throughout.

[43:42] J.J.: The whole time. He, but you want more like.

[43:46] Olaf: I tell you what I wanted more was once we got past knowing who he really was and he drops this whole insane act that we've seen for the whole movie. Like when we really see him in person for the next, what was it? The fifth movie?

[44:02] J.J.: Yeah. Cause he's only in one scene in the fourth and it's really not him.

[44:05] Olaf: Yeah, it is, but it's not.

[44:06] J.J.: Yes.

[44:07] Olaf: I'm like, wow, this guy is, I want to see more of this guy.

[44:11] J.J.: Yeah, I know. I agree. And it's the building blocks that he does the work that he does in this movie. It makes, it makes it like you said, oh, we will. I know he's in, he's in later books, so it'll be interesting to see how he's used.

[44:26] Olaf: I didn't know that.

[44:27] J.J.: Right. We haven't touched upon this. We're going to touch on it here as we get closer to the end of the movie, but the scene where Sirius is at the riverbed and he's, the Dementors are all over him and Harry sort of sucking their life. And then you do get to, because of the time travel, you do realize that it is Harry basically saving himself and Sirius with the Patronum of, uh.

[44:49] Olaf: The Patronus charm.

[44:50] J.J.: The Patronus charm of the deer, which is I think Lily's Patronus, if I'm not mistaken.

[44:54] Olaf: Yeah.

[44:55] J.J.: I can't remember if they mentioned that in this one or I know they mentioned it later, but that was a nice, a cool moment for Harry to have thinking that it was his dad, but it was really himself. A couple of things here that I don't like about this movie.

[45:09] Olaf: Wow. I was not expecting this knowing that this is arguably your favorite.

[45:14] J.J.: I know. I know. Ron's haircut is terrible. His hairstyle bothers me. It's not bothersome to the much, but coupled with, and this is not a hit at the actor in any way, shape or form. I am still, especially going into, as we get older, Ron as a character.

[45:34] Olaf: Oh, you don't like Ron?

[45:35] J.J.: Not particularly. Not in this movie. He's still, he, the whininess of his character in the first two, I can, I'm okay with them. Fine. They're a left. I get it. And maybe he, maybe he is the scared version of who we would be at this age, 13, having to deal with all this stuff. But at this point you're, you've already seen some things. You're going to a school of wizardry. Come on, man. Like, well, let's go.

[46:02] Olaf: So you're, this means every movie we talk about from here on out, your negative thing that you're going to have for it is Ron.

[46:10] J.J.: I'm hoping as we move forward, that it's justified a little bit, his, his character choices and the way he is, is justified more. I just was like, dude, how did you get over here? And then I was talking to you over here. Just, just knock him out.

[46:27] Olaf: Okay.

[46:27] J.J.: Just knock him out.

[46:28] Olaf: You want to do what he did to Lockhart in the previous movie and just take a rock to his head.

[46:34] J.J.: Where is that kid? What happened to that guy? Thank you. Thank you for bringing that up because we mentioned it last week. He just straight up picks up a rock.

[46:43] Olaf: Nearly murders an adult.

[46:45] J.J.: He sacrifices himself in the first one during the chess match. And now here he, he's just whining and crying. He's afraid of spiders again. I get it.

[46:55] Olaf: I don't think he was ever not afraid of spiders.

[46:56] J.J.: He's not afraid, but I mean, okay. The fact that Hermione at this point, she doesn't have any sort of like interest in Ron, but there's, they're sprinkling it in and I'm like, why?

[47:07] Olaf: Hey, I feel that their relationships more earned than Ginny and Harry.

[47:12] J.J.: Oh, I completely agree with you there. The one relationship that they just sort of like, they're really going to be really good friends as Harry and Hermione. Duh. I know it's a cliche, but you're, I agree that the earned relationship between Ron and Hermione is much higher than the Ginny Harry. I completely agree with you there.

[47:29] Olaf: Yeah.

[47:30] J.J.: So the other thing I don't like about this movie is the very last shot.

[47:35] Olaf: The freeze frame.

[47:36] J.J.: The freeze frame shot. Why he could, it would have been so much cooler, maybe cliched if they did a straight on and he just, or if he's, if they're going to do the side shot, just fly off the camera. I don't, I don't need the free shot of him smiling and all giddy. Cause he got a new broomstick.

[47:51] Olaf: I could be wrong, but I feel like I read this somewhere that that shot is there because Cuaron wanted to freeze a moment to show Harry happy. Cause it's not like he's happy a lot in this franchise and especially in this movie specifically.

[48:09] J.J.: I will say this so far at the end of every movie, the first three, he's smiling. The last shot we see of him getting the first movie, isn't him getting on the train and he's smiling year to year. No free, he just get fade to black. Second movie, Hagrid comes into the dining hall. He's smiling. And of course they do this really cool pan out of the school blackout. He's, he's happy. We're, we're getting it.

[48:31] Olaf: Well, you know, to each their own. Freeze frame.

[48:36] J.J.: Freeze frame.

[48:38] Olaf: All right, everybody. That is our take on Prisoner of Azkaban. It's a really fun movie. The first two movies are great because they do such a solid world building job, but man, to jump in at this point on is such a great adventure.

[48:55] J.J.: Yeah. There's so many different things that they're juggling because of the source material as well. So it's, again, it's a credit to the book. The pacing of this movie, we didn't even tell it was great. I mean, it's about 20 minutes shorter than the last movie, but they sort of do a really good job.

[49:11] Olaf: It feels like it has so much more going on.

[49:12] J.J.: It has so much more going on. Then it becomes a time travel movie.

[49:16] Olaf: The second highest time travel movie of all time.

[49:19] J.J.: Oh, nice.

[49:21] Olaf: Behind adventures and game, I think.

[49:23] J.J.: Look at you with some statistics.

[49:25] Olaf: Look out.

[49:25] J.J.: Wow. We're on that little nugget at the end, but it does so much in addition to letting you know, hey, by the way, these kids are getting older. The tone is shifting. Buckle up.

[49:36] Olaf: Buckle up. Guys, thanks so much for listening. As always, follow us wherever you get your podcasts. So you don't miss an episode. Follow us on our Instagram. We'll always let you know that we have an episode coming as well. And we always like to put out fun videos here and there about other things that we do, fun little games and stuff like that. So follow us. And for those of you who have been listening, thank you so much. We're heavy into the run of this thing and we're not slowing down.

[50:07] J.J.: Yeah. We've got so many more things planned and so many more things to do, and we love doing this together. So we'll continue doing this as long as we can. And until then.

[50:15] Olaf: To be continued.

[50:31] ♪ Musical number: Theme song and incidental music by The Dimes ♪

[50:35] J.J.: Visit us at bttmtpodcast.com for trivia, play alongs, merch, and more. That's bttmtpodcast.com. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok and find us on YouTube at Back to the Movie Theater with J.J. and Olaf.