Ep. 41 - The Franchise Who Lived! Part 2

This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] J.J.: Where do you fall on magic? Do you believe in it? Do you think it's hokey? Do you like it? Do you hate it? There are people out there that are not fans of magic.

[0:17] Olaf: I love it. I think it's very entertaining. I think it's a lot of fun. There's a couple of magician specials that I've seen on streaming services where I'm constantly blown away by how they do it. I used to love, when I was a kid, sitting down in front of the TV to watch David Copperfield.

[0:35] J.J.: Yes, thank you. I was going to say that name as well. He was the quintessential magician of our generation. And then when he would do magic tricks that involved people at home, you had to touch the screen and everything. I loved those specials. CBS would do those specials. One was on the train. I showed my son those years ago when he was younger. I found them on YouTube and I was like, let's do this! Because that had been forever since I had seen it. And you're like, follow this thing around the window of the train. It was so great. So fun.

[1:12] Olaf: There's one guy who's very family friendly. He's on Netflix.

[1:16] J.J.: Oh yeah, I know exactly who you're talking about. I can't think of his name.

[1:21] Olaf: He is hilarious. He's done some on the street specials. But then he's got a special where he was on stage and he does one. And this thing is unbelievable.

[1:28] J.J.: Justin Willman. He's got three seasons of street specials. And then he's got one special where he was on stage. He did a show.

[1:33] Olaf: Yeah, I saw that. It was really good. Loved it. But this brings us to our topic of today. Look at you taking a page out of my book. Segway! Right into the topic of discussion. I'm very proud of you, Olaf.

[1:48] J.J.: Thank you very much. Yes, that's right. We are going to be jumping back into the Harry Potter franchise. And today we will be talking about Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. But before we do that, let's get back to the movie theater.

[2:04] Olaf: Yes, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. Now, look, nothing against Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone is the one that started it all. They have to build a world that we are going to be involved in. However, now that we get into the second movie, we can finally start really having a little more fun.

[2:30] J.J.: Did you not have fun on the last episode?

[2:41] Olaf: No, I had a lot of fun. I'm just talking about like the movie itself. It's great. But now that this world has been set up, now we have that foundation.

[2:52] J.J.: Yes. Though I still feel like this movie is still doing a substantial amount of world building. I felt like the first two Christopher Columbus Potter films was really establishing, all right, we've got Diagon Alley, we've got Nocturne Alley, we've got all of these things. All of this stuff exists. This is the world we're just filling out and fleshing out those boundaries a little bit more before it would ultimately be taken over by a variety of other directors.

[3:20] Olaf: If I'm not mistaken, was he approached to shoot the second one first or was it always going to be him doing the second one?

[3:26] J.J.: Columbus was actually supposed to do all of them. When he was approached, and I think there might have been a contract originally that he would direct all of them, but he realized during the making of these two films that he would miss his children growing up. He decided that the first two was enough for him. He stayed on as a producer for the third one.

[3:50] Olaf: Right. But from a tone standpoint, the first two to me are very similar, even though the second one, it is a lot darker than I remember it. But he's just sticking to the material. Each book just goes a little darker and a little more adult. The first two are very similar. I don't think it takes any leaps into the dark. You don't really get that until the third one. But yeah, it's definitely heavier tones. You got a spooky snake and people getting petrified.

[4:18] J.J.: But in a way it kind of picks up where it left off because that final scene in Sorcerer's Stone or Philosopher's Stone, depending on where you're at, with him battling Professor Quirrell and Voldemort, that's pretty dark.

[4:31] Olaf: Yeah, you're right. It kind of hits that level and then sticks with it going into Chamber of Secrets, I think.

[4:36] J.J.: True. So it's a real nice, natural progression. This movie came out in 2002. A year later, like almost to the day. They were right on top of each other for the first three. The first two for sure.

[4:47] Olaf: The Rotten Tomatoes score for this is 82%, and the audience score is 80%.

[5:00] J.J.: So what was the first one?

[5:01] Olaf: The first one was 80% Rotten Tomatoes and 82% audience. So they just switched.

[5:06] J.J.: Interesting. That's not too surprising, I guess, because I've always said historically that the first two books are very much kind of the same.

[5:11] Olaf: Yeah, a little bit. And the movies sort of feel that way too. So the fact that the scores in and of itself are relatively the same does not surprise me. Like we said, Christopher Columbus is back as the director. This will be his last directing of the franchise. He always hoped that he would come back later, but this ended up being his last one. He did produce on the third one before I believe he completely stepped away.

[5:34] J.J.: The composer for this is technically John Williams. He was not able to deliver a fully elaborated score. So composer William Ross was hired to adapt Williams' material to complete the score and was subsequently conducting the orchestra during the recording sessions.

[5:53] Olaf: Yeah, so he's back sort of. I think it was Catch Me If You Can came out the same year, so I don't know if maybe he was doing that. As far as the cast goes, we have such a huge cast from the first one, and then we have quite a few people joining in on this second movie to continue to build this world and cast of characters. You have Toby Jones joining the cast as the voice of Dobby.

[6:15] J.J.: Mark Williams coming in as Mr. Weasley.

[6:22] Olaf: Yeah, I forgot he's not in the first one.

[6:24] J.J.: Yeah, you would think he's been in all of them, but he was not. Just Mrs. Weasley was in the first one. We have the amazing Jason Isaacs joining the cast as Lucius Malfoy.

[6:36] Olaf: Stellar casting. He was on the fence. He didn't want to do it.

[6:42] J.J.: He didn't, no. Because he had just done the Peter Pan movie, and he thought it was going to be very similar to his Captain Hook.

[6:47] Olaf: Yeah, and then he had pretty much carte blanche on the design of his character.

[6:51] J.J.: Yeah, it's so great. Everything you see is really him saying, I want the hair, I want the cloak, I want the... It was perfect. We get Kenneth Branagh joining us as Gilderoy Lockhart.

[7:04] Olaf: Miriam Margulies is also a new professor at the school as Professor Sprout. Shirley Henderson is moaning Myrtle. We only see her a couple times in the franchise, and it's...

[7:15] J.J.: Yes, it's hard to believe. She does a great job. What blows me away is that she was 37 when this movie came out.

[7:22] Olaf: Yeah, which...

[7:26] J.J.: That's just wild. I would not have guessed that.

[7:29] Olaf: I wouldn't have guessed 27.

[7:30] J.J.: We get the head of the Ministry of Magic, Cornelius Fudge, played by Robert Hardy, who will be the head minister for a couple of the movies going forward. Gemma Jones as Madam Pomfrey was actually in the first movie, but you don't really see her. She's kind of in the background. So this is really the first time we get to see her character as the head nurse in their clinic that...

[8:00] Olaf: Yeah, and she's got a lot to do.

[8:02] J.J.: Yeah. She's got a lot to do in this. We get the amazing Julian Glover blessing us with his voice for Aragog.

[8:09] Olaf: Right. I forgot that he voices the spider in this film.

[8:13] J.J.: Yeah. Actually, I didn't even know.

[8:16] Olaf: Yeah. I found that out in my research. I was like, what? For those who don't know Julian Glover, we're talking to him like he's somewhat of a household name. And I guess if you're a cinephile, you would know who he is, but he's Donovan in Last Crusade. He's also in Empire Strikes Back as one of the imperial soldiers during the big snow fight. And he's just a great character actor. I think he was in Game of Thrones, if I'm not mistaken. I mean, the guy's been all over.

[8:44] J.J.: Yeah. And then the last character of note is Christian Coulson, who was Tom Riddle, the young Voldemort.

[8:50] Olaf: Right. Who sort of slid into that casting. They were really wanting to cast kids of a certain age.

[8:57] J.J.: Like younger. Clearly, Moaning Myrtle is an exception, as is Tom Riddle, because he's the actor. He was like 27, I think. He was a little older as well.

[9:08] Olaf: Yeah. Something like that.

[9:09] J.J.: Or in his 20s. He was in his mid to late 20s.

[9:11] Olaf: But you buy it. He fits into it.

[9:13] J.J.: Oh, absolutely. No, absolutely. I think if you look at Moaning Myrtle a little too closely, you can be like, I'm not sure she's a student.

[9:21] Olaf: Right. Now, with this knowledge of how old she is, I'm sure on a rewatch, you're going, OK, I kind of see it.

[9:30] J.J.: This is the final Harry Potter film to feature Richard Harris as Professor Dumbledore. He died of Hodgkin's disease a few weeks before the movie released in America, which is very sad.

[9:44] Olaf: It is. It's interesting because and we'll talk about it when we get into the next one. But the tonal shift of that character changes quite a bit when they recast it.

[9:53] J.J.: While he was in the hospital, he insisted on them not recasting because he really felt that he could do the third one.

[10:00] Olaf: Yeah. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.

[10:02] J.J.: Yeah. A filming for this began three days after the release of the first film.

[10:08] Olaf: Three days. That's crazy.

[10:10] J.J.: There's got to be some sort of feeling of excitement because you are. So you're going to shoot it.

[10:15] Olaf: Yeah.

[10:15] J.J.: You're already at the job. Paycheck. I know I'm getting paid and I get to go back.

[10:21] Olaf: You already know you're going back before the first one is released. Like I'm assuming that Monday they go day one of principal photography is after the weekend. What an amazing feeling.

[10:31] J.J.: I would imagine maybe you're either nervous or super excited that it did so well.

[10:36] Olaf: Yeah. It's one of those things where the success of it could create more pressure or you're insulated from it and you're just like time to go to work.

[10:43] J.J.: I would imagine it's a little bit of both.

[10:45] Olaf: I think all of those things that we are like overly concerned about our social media, the thing, everything at your fingertips wasn't accessible and it definitely wasn't accessible to these kids. So I really do believe they were sort of sheltered from it.

[10:58] J.J.: Yeah.

[10:58] Olaf: But when it has that big of a weekend, it's hard not it's hard not to know.

[11:01] J.J.: I guess they're at a great age where the fame of it all and that they're going right back to work anyway is kind of lost on them.

[11:06] Olaf: And then a lot of the older actors, they've already been through it. So I guess the only pressure is maybe Chris Columbus has got some pressure on him.

[11:18] J.J.: Maybe. But I think you're kind of playing with house money because the audience has already bought into the world you've created from the first one.

[11:23] Olaf: Yeah.

[11:27] J.J.: So all you really have to do is maintain the foundation and have the confidence to know that the choices you're making moving into this one are going to be good.

[11:35] Olaf: Another interesting fact about this movie, it's based on the second shortest book in the series, but this is the longest of the movies.

[11:44] J.J.: And Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, which is based on the longest book, is the second shortest of the movies.

[11:50] J.J.: I don't know how I feel about that, really. Chamber of Secrets is a good book. The movie didn't need to be this long. And I watched the extended edition.

[11:59] Olaf: How much longer is that?

[12:01] J.J.: I would have to look, but I assume it's probably another 10 minutes or so. The non-extended is what, 2 hours, 41 minutes, something pretty lengthy.

[12:06] Olaf: Yeah, it's long. Then there really shouldn't be any reason why you need to adapt anything from the book. I mean, the book isn't that big.

[12:11] J.J.: That's true. I guess they just wanted to really get to the heart of some of the themes in the movie.

[12:16] Olaf: Some of the things, yeah. But yeah, that brings us to the movie. And really, the first thing that we get into is Dobby.

[12:21] J.J.: Oh, Dobby.

[12:22] Olaf: Yeah, Dobby. I gotta tell you. What a cool addition, I think, to the series. Because even in the books, it's like, he gets this whole chapter of things.

[12:28] J.J.: I found Dobby so annoying.

[12:30] Olaf: Really?

[12:31] J.J.: Yeah. Here's the funny thing, because in this movie, he is so obnoxious and so annoying. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, pump the brakes. But am I tearing up in Deathly Hallows? I'm kind of tearing up at the end of this one when he gets set free. But question to you then. Now, this might be an apples to oranges comparison, but if you had to choose between the selective scenes that you got with Dobby in Chamber of Secrets versus 80% of Phantom Menace with Jar Jar Binks, who are you taking?

[13:02] Olaf: I would take Dobby.

[13:03] J.J.: Yeah. No, there's nothing beats how annoying Jar Jar Binks is. Nobody tearing up if Jar Jar goes. I will say, there are moments where Dobby calms down. Then he's fine. Then I'm like, okay, I like Dobby. It's when he's over the top and hurting himself and the wailing. Yeah, that was a little much. I'm just like, okay.

[13:22] Olaf: Wasn't the story that goes that sort of design of Dobby was actually mirrored off of Vladimir Putin? And Vladimir Putin was like, I do not like this Dobby character because he looks entirely too much like me.

[13:30] J.J.: I think I've heard that rumor, but I can't say for sure.

[13:32] Olaf: Right. They designed him off of that. Although even in the book, there's a picture of him in the book. They did a really good job of that. I didn't have a problem with Dobby. I will agree with you that him beating himself up and all of that shenanigans was a little much. But that happened a lot. If you tone that down, I wouldn't have found him nearly as annoying.

[13:50] J.J.: There's an argument. I'm sure there's a total camp that's completely with you in terms of the annoyance of his character. I will say credit to Daniel Radcliffe because he's much like a lot of these special effects movies, especially up until the probably the last 10 years. He's playing against a tennis ball the whole time.

[14:07] Olaf: Nowadays, you'll have somebody in a suit probably.

[14:09] J.J.: In some sort of motion capture, right? Ever since Andy Serkis. Oddly, the irony is that Lord of the Rings came out the same time and Peter Jackson's over there doing motion capture.

[14:16] Olaf: Not enough of the Dursleys. We've talked about this in the first movie too. Petunia, Fiona Shaw, when they're like, the dinner's here and what are you going to be doing? She's like, I'm going to be standing over here by the fireplace getting ready to whatever. They don't get enough in this movie. They get a little bit more as they go.

[14:30] J.J.: This one, they needed to get to the school. They needed to speed this bit up.

[14:33] Olaf: You're right. They have to get to the school. The Dursleys aren't given a lot, but the movie is still so long.

[14:39] J.J.: Yeah, it's true. We have such a long sequence of getting to the school. The Weasley boys have commandeered their dad's flying car to rescue Harry. Harry, at this point, hasn't heard from anyone. He hasn't gotten any letters, not knowing that Uncle Vernon's been holding out on him.

[14:56] Olaf: Dobby had the letters. Dobby held them. You find out that Dobby is the one who never got them. Another reason not to like Dobby, I get it, because he had shanghaied the letters. Harry was completely cut off from his friends. Then he gets rescued and they go to the Weasley's home, which is very cool. All kinds of cool, practical, magical effects with the dishes being washed and all of the knitting needles.

[15:20] J.J.: There's a moment there where you see the sweater getting knitted. They actually shot footage of, I can't remember whose grandmother it was, but they actually shot footage of somebody going through the motions of doing it so then they could duplicate the sweater being knitted by magic.

[15:36] Olaf: It's very cool.

[15:37] J.J.: It's very cool. We get really introduced a bit more to Ginny Weasley in this. She had such a brief cameo in the first one. I just wrote, Ginny Weasley and the unearned romance.

[15:48] Olaf: Thank you. That's a whole other thing. We'll get into that more in the later episodes, but here they try to establish that she's infatuated with him a little bit and too shy, so she runs off.

[16:01] J.J.: To their credit, to the actors' credits, because again, they're kids, they do a very serviceable job with whatever notes they were given to try and convey that emotion. I'm not going to get them for that. I just was like, unearned, I can get on that train.

[16:16] Olaf: And then we get Mr. Weasley, his first appearance, and he is so good. The whole Weasley family in this franchise is so perfectly cast. The chemistry between everybody is great. You really believe that they're all related.

[16:31] J.J.: What I love about the actor who plays Mr. Weasley is that the only other time I had seen that actor prior to this was in Shakespeare in Love, where he's the actor who stutters the whole time.

[16:41] Olaf: Oh my gosh, you're right. I didn't even put that together.

[16:43] J.J.: He delivers the monologue spot on at the beginning of the show. That is that guy.

[16:48] Olaf: Oh my gosh.

[16:49] J.J.: And I'm like, this dude is amazing. And then when he shows up, I was like, yes.

[16:54] Olaf: Yeah, he's great.

[16:55] J.J.: Phenomenal. We get to see Nocturne Alley for the first time. Very creepy, very spooky. Love the set dressing. And then we also get to meet Mr. Malfoy. Lucius.

[17:07] Olaf: Lucius. Lucius, as they say.

[17:09] J.J.: And Jason Isaacs, he's great. I love him in everything that I've seen him do. Granted, I do prefer him in more villainous roles. It's always weird when I see him in something that's not.

[17:19] Olaf: He's a nice guy.

[17:20] J.J.: But he's always great. I think he's severely underrated in general. He's not really listed or even comes to a lot of people's minds when you think of actors that were crushing it in the late 90s, early 2000s.

[17:31] Olaf: He was in Armageddon, everybody. He was the guy who comes up with the plan to drill.

[17:36] J.J.: He was the smartest guy in the room.

[17:37] Olaf: He was the smartest guy in the room. That's Jason Isaacs. And then we get another brilliant actor. Right after that, we get Kenneth Branagh showing up as Gilderoy Lockhart, the new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher.

[17:50] J.J.: To just go with a theme that whoever's in that position probably shouldn't be or isn't going to last long. I can't remember if he was the original choice. I don't think he was.

[17:59] Olaf: I don't know.

[18:00] J.J.: And I didn't do enough research, but it doesn't matter because he is so great. His character jumps off the page right from the beginning when we see him in the bookstore.

[18:10] Olaf: This movie's done such a great job of introducing all these new characters right out of the gate. But again, that's why it's taking so long just to get to the school.

[18:20] J.J.: You know, we haven't even gotten there yet. They still have to go to the train station, where then Harry and Ron get locked out of going through the nine and three quarters. And then they have to take the flying car. And then that whole sequence is quite long.

[18:34] Olaf: That whole sequence is long. I thought they did a fantastic job with translating it from the book, especially when they get to the school and the tree starts to...

[18:41] J.J.: Oh, the Whomping Willow.

[18:42] Olaf: The Whomping Willow starts to try to eat the car.

[18:45] J.J.: Yeah. I thought that was a fantastically done scene in the film.

[18:48] Olaf: At that point, the car becomes sentient.

[18:50] J.J.: Yes. The car's like kicking you out.

[18:52] Olaf: Yeah. No signs of that until they get to the Whomping Willow. The car's like, if you're going to put me in this kind of danger, I'm going to let you know who's in control because up to this point, I can fly you around. We'll go cloak. We'll get you to the train.

[19:05] J.J.: Let me ask you this. At what point when they're traveling through the sky, do they break the magic barrier? Because clearly you have to go through a wall to get to nine and three quarters. And then the train kind of goes on its own path through the whatever.

[19:17] Olaf: No idea.

[19:18] J.J.: But at some point in the clouds...

[19:20] Olaf: It must have happened off camera.

[19:21] J.J.: Right. Because at some point in the clouds, they break through the muggle world into the wizard world to where...

[19:27] Olaf: Yeah. No clue.

[19:28] J.J.: But yes, they get to the school. The car pieces out. And it doesn't just fly away like, I'm going to go home, relax, find a mechanic to fix me up.

[19:37] Olaf: No. It becomes sentient and seemingly feral and runs off into the Forbidden Forest.

[19:43] J.J.: Right. And are we assuming that the car stays there? Because clearly it shows back up.

[19:48] Olaf: Yeah. It shows back up and has become even more wild than we last saw it. So I think it's just, this is my home now.

[19:55] J.J.: Well, I don't know how to get home because I'm in the wizard world.

[19:58] Olaf: I don't know. It seems pretty intelligent. So it seems like it could do whatever it wants. And at times it does. And then, yeah. So they're back at school. We've finally got to the school. Where we get to see the cast of professors, the OGs, McGonagall, Snape are all back.

[20:15] J.J.: And we get to meet Professor Sprout in her scene. They all put on these earmuffs to cancel out the noise.

[20:22] Olaf: And I just remember thinking, I don't think those earmuffs are cancelling anything.

[20:27] J.J.: They don't look like noise cancelling headphones.

[20:31] Olaf: No. Do you feel like this movie had some pacing issues?

[20:35] J.J.: I just felt like it took a while to get to some stuff.

[20:39] Olaf: Yeah. Well, I think again, there was a lot of world building going on. So that's going to slow it down some. But yes, I would say that there's some pacing issues.

[20:46] J.J.: At times it does feel long or it does feel slow.

[20:49] Olaf: Yeah. That was my only issue. But that was my main issue is that I know this book isn't that long. I don't really feel like this movie has to be this long. And if it's going to be, they could maybe have flushed out some other things and not condensed these other things over here.

[21:04] J.J.: Well, a new addition to Harry Potter world, racism, mud, mud, blood, mud, blood, mud, blood.

[21:12] Olaf: Yes. Yes. Thank you, Draco and Lucius for that. But I will say this.

[23:40] J.J.: Handled pretty well, like I mean obviously it's in the books, and it's a thing that they are tackling. But it's something that isn't glossed over. But it's also something that isn't like we're gonna really beat you over the head with it either. When we get our first scene with the whole Chamber of Secrets and everything, we find that Filch's cat, Mrs. Norris, has been petrified and in blood on the wall is a message saying that the Chamber of Secrets has been opened. I guess my question, because I even though I just re-watched this, I don't know if I got my answer, and maybe they said it at the end and I forgot, but the cat's petrified, not dead, so where'd the blood come from? Right? Is that on the wall?

Did they specify that that is in fact blood? Or I thought they did, or they might have, I can't remember. We just assume it is because we think initially that Mrs. Norris is dead. Oh, we clearly did our homework, guys. Well, there is no, obviously there's no trace of Mrs. Norris's, but because she's not dead, and I can't remember because this isn't the first time a message is put on the walls. No, it happened several times, and you see Ginny sort of writing on, like you don't see, you see like, yeah, you find out that she's the one that wrote all the messages, but is it paint? Is it somebody else's?

[24:58] Olaf: Yeah, yeah, you know when they do the big reveal at the end, I really liked how they filmed all of those scenes because there's a lot of detective work that needs to go on, and then to have them reveal how everything happened later was right. No, there was very much, I don't want to call it murder mystery because nobody got murdered, but it's sort of that mystery element, Agatha Christie sort of detective, like you say, detective work that goes on because then as you start piecing it together, you're like, oh, I wish there would have been an indicator of, and maybe this is just me from an audience standpoint, it was really easy to be like guess who did it? It was her because we don't ever see her do any, like it would have been nice to have, you don't really see Ginny do anything at all. You just know she's there, except her feeling towards Harry as the movie progresses starts to go sour because she thinks, well, maybe he is doing all these things.

[25:59] J.J.: Yeah, 'cause maybe everybody, he's always at the wrong place at the wrong time. So everyone writes, he's the one that's doing all of this, and then, yeah, you know, at the Wizarding Duel, which is very cool, we all learned then that he speaks Parseltongue, and that's where he's in what I was telling him not to attack this kid, and they're all like, that's not what we heard. And we talked a little bit about this before from the first movie, does he know? And he doesn't know. In this way, he doesn't know. He thinks, oh, he must be speaking Parseltongue at the zoo in the first movie. He doesn't, and he doesn't know it, but they made the choice for the audience to just have him speak English and to have the snake say thank you or thanks.

I thought that addition was really, was just, again, another layer, and it goes back to the confidence you have to have as Chris Columbus as the director, as the screenwriter to go, we're doing things right. Clearly, the audience has bought into the world that we've created from the first movie, and so now we're gonna introduce him speaking Parseltongue in what I thought was a really cool scene where they're pitted against each other like the students like fencing.

[27:03] Olaf: But I love how Branagh Lockhart is like Snape, I've asked Snape to come here and help me do these things, and Snape's like, whatever dude, like he's not about it. He can't be bothered by it.

[27:12] J.J.: Yeah.

[27:13] Olaf: But he's going to play along with this guy's shenanigans, and he just immediately puts him on his butt. But I will say when you watch that scene between him calling his spell and pointing his wand, there's so much time where Kenneth Branagh could have probably built some kind of defense.

[27:33] J.J.: Absolutely. Kenneth Branagh has no idea what he's doing. No, he's the guy who gets the job because he knew a friend or, you know, he's that guy who was sitting on his couch eating, you know, a bag of chips the day before he got hired.

[27:48] Olaf: So when we talk about this movie being a bit darker in tone, you know, we've got kids getting petrified, Hagrid goes to Azkaban, which is I think the first time they sort of mentioned that as the prison.

[28:01] J.J.: Yeah, and then we spend more time in the Forbidden Forest and we meet Aragog and his family of spiders, which, whoo, for anybody who has arachnophobia or an unease with spiders, this is quite a moment in the movie, which Ron, Rupert Grint does.

[28:24] Olaf: Yes.

[28:24] J.J.: Totally has arachnophobia. Yeah, apparently his responses and his emoting in those scenes was real.

[28:33] Olaf: What I thought was impressive about that scene is that Aragog is a combination, is he a cop or is he?

[28:39] J.J.: No, he's all practical. It's all practical. Everything else was practical puppet effect. It's incredible. It was amazing.

[28:47] Olaf: Yeah, it's on display somewhere at one of the Potter exhibits. I loved that they really, that Chris Columbus really did his best to embrace the practical elements of a lot of these things. Obviously, there are certain things that he married with digital, and that's what I love is do as much as you can practical, use CGI sparingly to blend the practical and the fantastical together, and then it's always gonna be great, and you have that tangible feel to the movie as opposed to when everything's, especially now, and I say now this movie is almost 25 years old as well. But even then to believe that the practical stuff isn't going to look cheesy, like you guys are good enough and you have the money to be able to make even the practical spider not look fake.

[29:35] J.J.: Yeah, it looks good. You know, it looks fantastic. We get another, is this when the car, so the car comes back to rescue them from being eaten, and I gotta tell you, it's a fun, exciting moment, but there is a moment where they get out of the woods kind of, and all of a sudden the spider like wraps itself, its front fangs around Ron's neck to like eat him or pull him out of the thing, and then right after a few minutes, Harry Potter knocks the spider off of a spell. My whole thing was that spider had all the time in the world to eat Ron. Ron's dead.

[30:19] Olaf: You have to wonder if maybe Columbus is like, I know he's afraid of spiders. Yeah, we're gonna keep this spider on his neck just a little bit longer.

[30:29] J.J.: But knowing that the spider's mandibles and stuff are right sure, and it's like right up against his neck, I'm like, no, Ron's dead. He died.

[30:39] Olaf: In the second movie, sorry guys, there are large sections of this film that Hermione isn't even in.

[30:47] J.J.: Yeah. She was actually relegated to supporting characters.

[30:54] Olaf: Yeah, she, yeah, this was the first, I think, and only time that that happens, right?

[31:00] J.J.: Yeah, she just, she's there, and then she's petrified for the rest of the movie, right?

[31:05] Olaf: Well, she's a cat, right? Because she got the spell, the cat hairs, and so she's not there, and then, right, she gets petrified, so it's really, you know, Harry and Ron and then Hagrid until he's taken away. But at the end of the day, you know, this is always Harry's story. So, you know, people are gonna come in and out, even though, you know, Hermione is one of the main three. It is a shame that she gets sidelined, but it's at least done in a way that makes sense.

[31:34] J.J.: Oh, right. No, there, there's a perfectly good act. They do a great job of explaining why she is not around.

[31:39] Olaf: Yeah.

[31:39] J.J.: In fact, if she hadn't, maybe we wouldn't have gotten the ending we got because, right, her getting petrified and which clues on her what would you say is the primary objective of this story?

[31:52] Olaf: I would say from beginning to end, the real through line, the real heart of this franchise is growing up, and that's something that Christopher Columbus does amazingly, but it's something that all of the movies do incredibly well. They really capture the pains and the joys and the awkwardness of growing up. You really get to see that in each film, and as each film goes, we get a little bit more maturity and we get a little bit more growth, and you know, here's the new thing, that obstacle that kids have to deal with.

[32:27] J.J.: Yeah, yeah, so I'd say that is the main stories, and I'll take it, and I was really, that's why I was asking the question because you're right, and the more you look at it through that lens, it's very clear.

[32:42] Olaf: Yeah, and now don't get me wrong, when we get to the reveal of Riddle, and I like the fact that we get to see Harry get thrown back into the end of the diary, and we get to see a young Hagrid. I mean, I don't know how old he's supposed to be, so, and that is his actual stand-in for all the scenes where they just need a giant Hagrid.

[33:01] J.J.: That is, he just dubbed his voice. They don't, Robbie Coltrane's voice.

[33:07] Olaf: Yeah, so this is me being that guy, math things adding up, boy.

[33:11] J.J.: Yeah, I know. Now, I don't remember, is this supposed to be like 40 years, 50, 40 years? I don't know.

[33:19] Olaf: I guess it may, I know I'm like, it's supposed to be 12 here because he looks like he's 20.

[33:25] J.J.: Well, in the flashbacks, look how big he is. So, okay, because Dumbledore, they did a really good job.

[33:30] Olaf: What's here's the crazy part? This is why Richard Harris again is so great in the flashbacks. Dumbledore, they not only, I mean, they didn't, the age, they just gave him a lighter beard, maybe they'd have to put as much makeup on, but he seemed like very youthful and energetic. You never would have thought that he was, like I said, that he was battling anything in real life.

[33:50] J.J.: I like this is why I wanted more Tom Riddle because I really, really enjoyed this actor's performance as Tom Riddle in the Chamber.

[33:59] Olaf: Yeah.

[33:59] J.J.: Like when he and Harry finally meet and there's the big reveal and he starts as like every bad guy does, explains the plan and this is who did it and all these things. I was like, I want a little bit more of this guy.

[34:11] Olaf: Well, he also did a really good job of framing Tom Riddle and Harry to be very similar, how they would phrase things and how it's, things are cyclical and like repeating themselves.

[34:23] J.J.: Right between the two. I thought that was really well done because that continues to seed the thought of how they're actually connected, which we find out later on. And I guess to defend their choice, I thought they did, early most movies you would have seen, they would have shot scenes of like the Tom Riddle character lurking around a corner or doing things, feet, and you don't see his face and you just see a hand. Most films would have done that to just allude to the fact that there is this other figure. The fact that they didn't do that, I will applaud because the only, the first time you see is when he's just writing in the diary. So you're like, it's a great way, much more of a mystery and more completely.

[35:15] J.J.: So when they go into the Chamber of Secrets, they bring Gilderoy Lockhart, who they're now holding prisoner because he's trying to escape. He's a big chicken. He's trying to run away, and when they jump down into the chamber, he takes...

[35:30] J.J. Gonzalez: Ron's broken wand and he's like, well, I happen to be very good at memory spells. A grown adult is about to wipe the memory of these two kids, gets it knocked back onto him, and then there's this huge cave-in that conveniently separates Harry from Ron and Gilderoy. But what I noticed, Gilderoy sits up and he's like, hello, who are you? Who am I? And Ron just picks up a rock and just knocks him out. And I'm like, that seems unnecessary. He's no longer a threat. He might actually be helpful in this moment. Okay, in Ron's defense, I don't condone the action. I'm just going to put that out right now. I don't condone the action of him picking up a rock and basically knocking him out. I guess in his defense, he's a kid.

He's like 12. He's already seen and done a lot in his life that would scar any regular child. Two, you don't trust Lockhart. You just tried to wipe your memory. And now, who's to say that Lockhart's not faking it? I guess. I don't know. But I would agree. I was just a little over the top. You're lucky you didn't kill him. Right. So, you know, Harry's on his own now and he has to fight the Basilisk. And now we get true ex machina. We get Fox the Phoenix Dumbledore's V.S. just flies in, drops off the sorting hat, leaves only to come right back, blind the Basilisk, leave again, only to come back later when it's all said and done and say, take him out of there and give the healing tears and then fly.

Not just Harry, not just Ginny, but Harry, Ginny, Ron and a full grown man. How strong is this Phoenix? Well, I tell you, the Phoenix is just going to turn to ash and come back again. So he's, you know, done this a time or two. The random appearances of Fox the Phoenix, though, it's cool. As far as it's like a story goes, it kind of bugs me because it's just like, how handy? Well, and they try to explain it when Dumbledore says, because you defended me because of true act of loyalty. It was a true act of right. So Fox made the decision. This is, you know, he is the one. But I would have believed it more if he flew in and stayed. But yeah, he flies out and then comes back again at a very opportune time, leaves to come back again at a very opportune time because he's hanging out with the car. But the car can't get down there to save Harry. So he's hanging out with the car.

[38:18] Olaf Adzit: Oh, my God, they're swapping stories about these stupid kids and how they can't stay out of trouble. Yeah. Oh, we also get to see the sword of Gryffindor, right, which just happens to appear in the Sorting Hat. It's like, why? Why is the Sorting Hat here? It's the whole they try to explain it with one. And this is the other thing. Again, this movie, if you're going to make this movie this long, then try to pick the moments where you can expound on things. We're just going to solve this with one line of dialogue later that Dumbledore says. Yeah. If you notice in the scenes where Harry is like climbing around with the sword, you can see the metal ball on the top of the point of the sword. So it can't stab anybody.

Can't stab anybody. I'm like, you've got all this other effects going on. You could have taken a moment to get rid of that. So let me ask you this, because we've talked about the darker tone. Is it darker than the first one? Yada, yada, yada. The ending of the first movie where Quirrell basically gets set on fire and disintegrates very The Last Crusade or basically, you know, the only thing missing was the skeleton going against the wall and crushing and all that versus Harry Potter straight up with the sword right through the throat of the Basilisk and then using the tooth to just constantly stab the diary and you see the blood. I mean, like, which one of those do you feel like is this is it is the second one darker than the first one in terms of how the bad guy is eliminated?

Because you see Riddle sort of like, yeah, you see Riddle, but it's like rays of light and stuff coming out of them. I would say Quirrell disintegrating is a bit more gruesome and that blood oozing out of the pages of the diary, but it's like black. It's not really. So do you think Riddle sort of maybe did a little stab of the diary to get some blood to write on the wall? Because Ginny has the diary.

[40:18] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, but Ginny has the diary. She's the one writing on the wall, is she? Because she's also sort of she must have used her own just like or she's like stabbing a book a little bit. She's not stabbing the book. The book bleeds. She's not going to she's not going to like it wasn't Harry goes after that book. Harry goes after that book like four times with the venomous fang of the Basilisk. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. It is hinted at that Lucius is the one who introduced the diary into the school so that all of this could happen. Yes, he at the bookstore Nocturnal he or Diagonal he picks up one of Ginny's books or Weasley's book and then the idea is that he slips the diary in her sack, which is pretty diabolical.

[41:10] Olaf Adzit: Oh, well, it was, but it's not surprising considering who we're talking about and how he's played because it doesn't work without this performance.

[41:17] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, and none of these do. I mean even Kenneth Branagh's Lockhart. He's a phenomenal actor and could that role have been played by somebody else? Probably, and it probably would have been serviceable. But for Lucius and for Jason Isaacs, there are certain things that he does, choices he makes that really ground the villainy of his character so much so that like even Chris Columbus is like I need you to what does he say? What was he saying? Slow down or speed up like whenever he would deliver these lines of dialogue, but there are moments to where the wig was so elaborate to keep the hair out of his face. He's actually playing every scene. He's in with his sort of head. Yeah, which also gives him this snobby way of being. He does a really fantastic job of not making Lucius Malfoy a caricature.

[42:04] Olaf Adzit: Oh, no. Yeah, he's that character. He's even at the end when he's in there with Dumbledore and Harry at the end. Yeah, and was like, we're so glad that you're that it worked out. What would have happened if Harry Potter wasn't here to save the day, which he improvised and Harry comes back with his own improvised line. Yeah, Daniel Radcliffe says don't worry, I will be. And that whole thing, that exchange is completely improvised between those two.

[42:30] J.J. Gonzalez: Okay. So as we approach here, the end Lucius is about to go full spell on Harry. He is about to use the killing curse on Harry. He's about to kill him. Yeah, there's no like to me doesn't make much sense. You are in a castle like a fort not fortified space. But if you would struck him down, which was about to happen, where are you going? Are you getting away? And all because you lost your slave, your house elf.

[43:00] Olaf Adzit: Yeah, because he tricked him into giving up Dobby. He's willing to murder the student on school grounds. That's pretty dark. That's pretty dark. But it also tells you a little it informs you more about him or the character. One other thing that I noticed when they're in Dumbledore's office, just before Lucius shows up, Dumbledore holds up the Gryffindor sword and is like, here, look at this, you know, examine it. And Harry just full up grabs the blade. I'm like, that has a handle, Harry, come on. That drove me nuts watching that. I'm like, how are you not cutting your hand? What are you doing? You don't do that.

[43:41] J.J. Gonzalez: That's neither here nor there. I will say that at the end of the movie, when they're all in the Great Hall, and Dumbledore cancels all the exams, the only two people who are sad about it is Hermione Granger and Professor Snape. Right. Everybody else is like, whoo. Yeah, Hermione right on brand for her, for sure. But there's a shot of Snape. Snape. And you can tell he's also like, oh, man, what kind of school is this?

[44:07] Olaf Adzit: I know. We didn't mention it. We do get a Quidditch scene, which to me in the book is one of my favorite scenes because he breaks his arm and then.

[44:20] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, well, they have that rogue bludger that's just like.

[44:24] Olaf Adzit: Right. Hunting him down. The Lockhart comes in and just thinks he's going to heal him. Takes all the bones out.

[44:30] J.J. Gonzalez: Takes all the bones away, which gives the nurse or Madam Pomfrey more to do. Yeah. And she's like, you know, it would have been easy to repair the bones. But now that you've removed them all, this is going to be quite painful.

[44:41] Olaf Adzit: Right. There was something they did do, which again, is so interesting. The passage of time in this book, because even Hermione's like, well, I got to create this spell so you can shape shift that we can figure out. Takes a couple of months.

[44:54] J.J. Gonzalez: Takes a couple of months. You're like, OK. And then how long is Harry in the infirmary getting his bones back together in his arm? Like, are these kids learning anything in this school? Because it doesn't seem like they are.

[45:03] Olaf Adzit: Yeah. We don't see a lot of classes. And, you know, the one dark arts class we get, Gilderoy just unleashes these violent pixies.

[45:15] J.J. Gonzalez: Right. Like, well, I don't know what you're doing. I'm trying to figure out like if there's homework, nobody's doing it.

[45:20] Olaf Adzit: Well, you do see scenes of them in like study halls where they're all sitting at tables reading books.

[45:26] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah. I mean, they're studying and they're in the library, I guess. But overall, it is darker, a little older. You can tell they've aged a little bit. There's a clear jump in the next movie, in the next film. But this one was I don't know, I think I'm right there with the audience scores. They're right there.

[45:45] Olaf Adzit: I was really impressed by the first one and was excited for the second one. And each movie that would come out, I was just as impressed and looking forward to the next. So and I'm looking forward to jumping into the next as well, because Prisoner of Azkaban is an argument that is my favorite one. It's I mean, the movie is great. So yeah, so I'm looking forward to getting to that one, too.

[46:07] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah. Do we have any final thoughts on Chamber of Secrets? It's a great entry into the franchise. It's a great franchise to be talking about. And we're going to just keep the train, keep the Hogwarts Express rolling here. Well, that's Chamber of Secrets, everybody. We hope you had a good time listening in on this. I don't even need to tell you to watch it again. I'm sure you will. And if you haven't done some kind of Harry Potter marathon at least once a year.

[46:35] Olaf Adzit: Guys, we love talking about movies. So keep on checking in with us and see what we got coming up next. Until then, to be continued. Back to the Movie Theater is hosted by J.J. Gonzalez and Olaf Adzit. Produced by me, Johnny Clay, J.J. Gonzalez and Olaf Adzit. Theme song and incidental music by The Dimes. Visit us at bttmtpodcast.com for trivia, playalongs, merch and more. That's bttmtpodcast.com. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok and find us on YouTube at Back to the Movie Theater with J.J. and Olaf.