Ep. 4 - Excavating the Indiana Jones Trilogy!

This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] J.J.: Hey man, how you doing?

[0:07] Olaf: I love your dedication to time.

[0:11] J.J.: People don't know that I'm late, by the way. They have no idea that I'm 17 minutes late, because they don't know.

[0:18] Olaf: And if anybody wants to know why, I'm under a tornado watch. They got sirens going off. It's a thing that I'm not really a fan of.

[0:28] J.J.: You chose to live where tornadoes come from, so it's kind of standard.

[0:36] Olaf: Well, unfortunately this is currently just an audio medium, but I do want to show you what I got going on here for this recording.

[0:47] J.J.: So, for all of the viewers at home, JJ is wearing a Raiders of the Lost Ark 40 year anniversary t-shirt.

[0:58] Olaf: And it looks really nice.

[1:00] J.J.: It is nice.

[1:01] Olaf: I'm kind of jealous.

[1:02] J.J.: Well, I would say, but this is a small, and I just don't think it'll fit you.

[1:08] J.J.: But my brother got this for me for the 40th of Raiders of the Lost Ark. And I thought it was fitting.

[1:15] J.J.: Spoiler alert! Here we go! We're talking today about Indiana Jones, one of my absolute passions in film.

[1:27] J.J.: One of my all-time favorite characters, and one of the best trilogies out there.

[1:35] Olaf: Yeah.

[1:36] J.J.: Yeah, you heard me. Trilogies. So, let's jump in. Let's go back to the movie theater, and let's talk about Indiana Jones.

[2:01] J.J.: Ladies and gentlemen, today we are talking about Indiana Jones. And the last time I checked, Indiana Jones has five movies.

[2:11] Olaf: Some people might think that.

[2:13] J.J.: I can see how they could make that mistake of thinking that there are five Indiana Jones movies.

[2:18] J.J.: Well, when Indiana Jones is in the title of all five movies, well, actually, technically four movies, the first movie is just called Raiders of the Lost Ark, and as a purist, I will just call it Raiders of the Lost Ark.

[2:30] Olaf: Thank you, because that's how it should be.

[2:32] J.J.: Indiana Jones, that's exactly how it should be. Was that a Lucas thing, or was that the studio, or was that Lucas, where they felt they had to rebrand Raiders of the Lost Ark years later to call it Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark?

[2:45] Olaf: Well, honestly, that could have been Lucas or Spielberg. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if it was Lucas with his penchant for meddling with things that have already happened, but I think they just realized, we have this amazing special thing, so let's just put it all together.

[3:04] Olaf: I suppose, because the beautiful thing about an intellectual property like Indiana Jones is that it does sort of kind of take on a life of its own in terms of at the height of when the third one came out, then there was a TV show, Indiana Jones Chronicles, and then things like that.

[3:21] Olaf: So I was trying to figure out, because I honestly don't remember at what point they decided, hey, we should go back and call Raiders of the Lost Ark Indiana Jones because people may not know, and that's, again, that goes back to the branding of it.

[3:32] J.J.: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's interesting because I think that there was this idea that there would be more than one movie, but at the time of making Raiders, no one knew how much of an impact it would have and how iconic the character would be.

[3:50] J.J.: So it was always meant to be modeled after the Saturday matinee serials where they just kind of leave you on cliffhangers, and you come back the next week, and they wrap it all up. So it was always like separate standalone adventures was kind of their idea.

[4:09] J.J.: And if you look at all three films, I mean, that's what they are. It wasn't until Disney got their hands on it, and they wanted to tie everything together. And there's a good way to do it, and there's a bad way to do it, and everybody chose a bad way.

[4:27] Olaf: So why? Because, again, you mentioned it at the top that it is one of your favorite characters, and I've known you long enough to have seen you as Indiana Jones for Halloween.

[4:38] J.J.: I spent a lot of time and money putting that costume together and attention to detail, and you end up having to wear that for a few Halloweens.

[4:46] Olaf: Absolutely. I would wear that. It's like me with Marty McFly. If I could find every piece of Marty McFly, I would wear that every year.

[4:55] J.J.: Well, when it's mostly just denim, that's a lot easier.

[4:59] Olaf: Well, that's that red puffer zip-up vest.

[5:02] J.J.: Which also works around Halloween if you're in an area that has a fall.

[5:07] Olaf: This is true. What I was going to get to with Indiana Jones is clearly he's beloved. He's a beloved character by a lot of people, including myself. What about Indiana Jones for you resonated so much?

[5:21] J.J.: Even when I met you and as long as I've known you, Indiana Jones has always been at the top of a very short list. I am a child of the 80s, and I grew up with it. But those first three films, and especially Raiders, really captured the imagination.

[5:43] J.J.: It nailed that swashbuckling adventure feel. I mean, it's timeless. It doesn't matter when you watch it. Nothing about it sticks out as going, well, this is dated. Everything about it just works.

[5:59] J.J.: And even if people don't particularly like Temple of Doom, it is still a solid great movie that still grabs onto that adventure and the humor and the fun of it all, despite the much darker tones. And honestly, I think Temple of Doom is way underrated. It gets a lot of unnecessary hate.

[6:20] Olaf: Well, I think, and not to gloss over, because I know we're going to kind of bounce around a little bit, because we're not done talking about Raiders in any way, shape, or form, but you mentioned Temple of Doom, and I think the longer Temple of Doom, this is the 40th anniversary of Temple of Doom, speaking of 40 years, but because I think the subsequent fourth and fifth additional films that came out in the 21st century have made Temple of Doom better than it once was for me, in my eyes.

[6:50] Olaf: And I've got my own personal Temple of Doom story or whatever, but if I were to revisit Temple of Doom now, I think it wouldn't get such a harsh criticism from me like it did before.

[7:02] J.J.: You might be able to say that Temple of Doom was kind of ahead of its time. No one expected the darker turn that it took. But if you find old interviews of Steven Spielberg, even then he was like, I wanted something a little darker.

[7:22] J.J.: The title Temple of Doom made me think, well, the warning is in the title. So we're not trying to trick you here. He was going for a darker story.

[7:37] J.J.: It was a hard sell that I'm sure they were aware of, too, coming off of what I consider to be somewhat a perfect film in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Of its time, I mean, certain people great movies in their own way, but if you're looking for what I consider to be like a perfect action adventure or adventure movie that makes you feel good from top to bottom with characters you can embrace equally all across the board, this is close to a perfect film, Raiders of the Lost Ark, that can be, in my opinion.

[8:11] Olaf: I fully agree. It is so perfect. Everything about it was spot on.

[8:15] J.J.: I mean, we're not just talking the casting, the story structure. The tempo of the movie is so fast and nothing is wasted.

[8:28] Olaf: Right. There isn't any.

[8:29] J.J.: Characters aren't wasted, moments, little things. Everything is very intentional and everything is executed very well in terms of how the story, the pacing of the movie, the pacing of the story, everything is done really well.

[8:46] Olaf: And this is still early Steven Spielberg. I would say that he is definitely coming into his own, but I wouldn't say that he's reached his precipice of filmmaking at this point. He's still finding himself in his style.

[9:02] J.J.: Which is so crazy to think because he had already done Jaws, Close Encounters, just those two right out of the gate. I mean, he had already done those two home runs and he's still kind of like, just finding my way still into what I want to do.

[9:24] J.J.: He's still a man who loved and loves movies and the process of them and making them. But I would argue that he doesn't hit his peak Spielberg-ness, if you will, until probably 1994.

[9:40] Olaf: I was going to say 1993.

[9:41] J.J.: 1993.

[9:42] Olaf: Yeah.

[9:43] J.J.: Schindler's List and Jurassic Park. Back to back. That's a whole other rabbit hole we could jump into.

[9:49] Olaf: No, I completely agree. And the partnership of Spielberg and Lucas at that time, early 80s, it was lightning in a bottle in terms of two of these like-minded people coming from the same sort of school, him and Coppola and Lucas, sort of kind of in that same auteur way of filmmaking, for them to come together and collaborate in such a way.

[10:15] J.J.: Oh, yeah. Well, I think in my mind, Lucas was still innovative and clever and imaginative. It wasn't until later where it seemed like he lost all imagination and just was focused on how do I market stuff, how do I push technology more and forget about everything else.

[10:36] J.J.: So do you have a favorite moment of the first film, like a singular like? That is hard. I mean, it would be hard for me to pick a favorite moment of any of the three films because they all work so well as a whole.

[10:51] Olaf: But, like, they're so beautifully shot. The music is so original and so wonderful.

[10:58] J.J.: I know. I mean, because who doesn't love the opening where he's already mid-adventure going for that fertility idol? And then you've got the classic, okay, my favorite part of the movie.

[11:11] Olaf: See? I knew you had it.

[11:12] J.J.: All right. Because there's so many things that I'm thinking of. But, no, my favorite part, and I know exactly when it starts and I know exactly when it ends, it starts when they've already had the airplane fight and everything's blown up.

[11:27] J.J.: The Nazis have left with the Ark and Indy and Marion are in a tent and they pull in Sala. And he's like, all right, you guys, I need you to go do this. I'm going to go after that truck.

[11:41] J.J.: And Sala's like, how? And he's like, I don't know. I'm making this up as I go. Which is just an incredible line that is just –

[11:50] Olaf: No, that's a solid moment.

[11:52] J.J.: It's just fantastic. It goes right into the big chase of the Ark on the trucks. It's fantastic. Everything about it, the whole structure of it, the performances, the stunts, the music is all so perfect, and it's my favorite.

[12:10] Olaf: Well, that line, too, also somewhat encapsulates what he's doing. I mean, he is. He's not frantically just trying to get by. I mean, there is some sort of thought process of what he's doing. But in the end, he is just sort of making it up, even at the beginning when he's trying to figure out how to get the proper weight to get the idol to switch the idol. He's just kind of using what he has at his disposal.

[12:35] J.J.: And so that line is so perfectly – it does sort of perfectly capture the whole thing.

[12:40] Olaf: Oh, in the whole chase scene. You watch it, the way it's structured, it all seems so improvised. Even though the whole crew and everything has planned this thing out to a T, everything that Indy does in that fight just seems like, I'm going to jump on the side of this now. I'm going to do this and that and the other. And it's just so perfect.

[13:04] J.J.: And I would say that probably my favorite scene, if not close to my favorite scene in Last Crusade, same thing.

[13:14] Olaf: Right, on the tank.

[13:15] J.J.: He has to go get his dad out of the tank.

[13:18] Olaf: Right.

[13:19] J.J.: And that whole – he's on the horse, now he's on the tank.

[13:25] J.J.: Welcome back to another episode of Back to the Movie Theater! Today, we’re diving into the iconic Indiana Jones trilogy.

[13:45] Olaf: That's right! We're going to explore the adventures of Dr. Indiana Jones, from the thrilling action to the unforgettable characters.

[14:05] J.J.: I mean, who doesn’t love a good treasure hunt? The first film, "Raiders of the Lost Ark," really set the tone for the series.

[14:25] Olaf: Absolutely! It introduced us to Indiana Jones, played by Harrison Ford, and his quest to find the Ark of the Covenant. The opening scene alone is a classic!

[14:45] J.J.: Right? The boulder chase is legendary. It’s such a perfect blend of action and humor.

[15:05] Olaf: And let’s not forget the memorable supporting characters, like Marion Ravenwood. She’s such a strong female lead.

[15:25] J.J.: Definitely! Karen Allen brought so much to that role. Their chemistry is electric.

[15:45] Olaf: Speaking of chemistry, the relationship between Indy and his father in "The Last Crusade" is another highlight of the trilogy.

[16:05] J.J.: Sean Connery as Professor Henry Jones Sr. was brilliant. Their dynamic added a whole new layer to the story.

[16:25] Olaf: And the quest for the Holy Grail? It’s such a fascinating concept, blending history and mythology.

[16:45] J.J.: Plus, the humor in that film is top-notch. The scene with the grail tests is both intense and hilarious.

[17:05] Olaf: Exactly! And let’s not overlook "Temple of Doom." It’s darker than the others, but it has some incredible moments.

[17:25] J.J.: Right, the mine cart chase is a standout! It really ramps up the excitement.

[17:45] Olaf: And the introduction of Short Round? He’s such a fun character, adding a unique dynamic to the story.

[18:05] J.J.: For sure! Each film has its own flavor while still feeling like part of the same universe.

[18:25] Olaf: And the music! John Williams’ score is iconic. It really elevates every scene.

[18:45] J.J.: I can’t help but hum the theme whenever I think about these movies. It’s so memorable.

[19:05] Olaf: So, which film is your favorite?

[19:25] J.J.: I think I have to go with "Raiders of the Lost Ark." It’s the one that started it all for me.

[19:45] Olaf: I’m leaning towards "The Last Crusade." It just has everything—a great story, humor, and heart.

[20:05] J.J.: Great choice! They all have their strengths, but it’s hard to beat the original.

[20:25] Olaf: Agreed! And it’s amazing how these films have influenced pop culture over the years.

[20:45] J.J.: Absolutely! Indiana Jones is a character that has stood the test of time.

[21:05] Olaf: And with the recent films, it’s great to see him back on the big screen.

[21:25] J.J.: Yes! It’s a testament to the character’s enduring appeal.

[21:45] Olaf: So, what’s your favorite scene from the trilogy?

[22:05] J.J.: I think the opening of "Raiders" is hard to beat. It’s such a perfect introduction to Indiana Jones.

[22:25] Olaf: That’s a classic! I also love the scene in "The Last Crusade" where they’re in the library searching for the grail.

[22:45] J.J.: Such a clever scene! It really showcases Indy’s intelligence.

[23:05] Olaf: And the way it ties into history is just brilliant.

[23:25] J.J.: It’s a great reminder of how these films blend adventure with education.

[23:55] Olaf: Exactly! And that’s what makes them so special.

[24:15] J.J.: Well, that wraps up our discussion on the Indiana Jones trilogy.

[24:35] Olaf: Thanks for joining us! Be sure to subscribe and follow us on social media for more movie discussions.

[24:55] J.J.: Until next time, keep watching those films!

[25:15] Olaf: See you at the movies!

[25:35] J.J.: Bye!

[25:55] Olaf: Bye!

[26:15] J.J.: And remember, adventure is out there!

[26:35] Olaf: Don’t forget to dig deep!

[26:51] J.J.: They are having this moment which I thought was really great because it strengthens the moment at the end when Short Round saves Indy from his incendiary fire. It strengthens that moment and I feel like it ties back to the card scene because the genuine chemistry between the two of Short Round getting upset, of Indy being like shocked and like, what are you talking about? It's like, it was, it's perfect. Yeah. And you, it's like they've been playing cards together for a long time. And so there are some bright moments. And again, I'd have to revisit that movie again. And I feel like going into it again, it wouldn't be a fresh palate for me, but it would definitely get much bigger benefit of the doubt in a rewatch for me.

Fun fact about Temple of Doom. According to Spielberg, he went to Harrison, he's like, hey, we're thinking about putting you in the jungle and this, that and the other. Is there anything that you want or you don't want? And according to Spielberg, Harrison said, uh, we should have elephants. And so they ride around on elephants in the film. But the thing is, is because he was riding on that elephant and when you're riding on it, you're basically sitting on the shoulder blades of this giant animal. And it was basically tearing him apart to the point where he had to, they had to stop production for a second. And Harrison had to leave and go get this experimental emergency procedure done on his back because he was so injured.

It was, I think it was a previous injury that just got very serious very quickly. Which is crazy because, oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. But they couldn't just completely stop filming. So the whole action sequence inside the mine where Indiana Jones is fighting the bad guys and fighting the big muscle guy that was done by Neil Armstrong, who is a very famous astronaut stunt man. I'm sorry. Not, not Neil Armstrong, the astronaut Vic Armstrong. Oh my gosh. There we go. Oh my gosh. I can't believe I almost, can you imagine that? I would have gone back to just to see if I could clock Neil Armstrong. I am so sorry. It is, it is the great and amazing Vic Armstrong. Now, Vic Armstrong was already a well-established stunt man in his own right.

He was discovered on, he'd come to visit a stunt guy on Raiders. And when he showed up, Spielberg mistook him for Harrison. At the time, they looked very similar. So Spielberg thought he was talking to Harrison Ford, realized he wasn't and was like, oh, and you're a stunt guy? Well, guess what? You're now Harrison's stunt man. Well, Harrison got like in shape for this movie too.

[30:06] Olaf: Yes. He was, he got, he put on some muscle. He's, you know, I'm going to say he's. I mean, he's always been in fair, very good shape. Yeah, but I mean, even he would say like from. He was definitely showing off the guns. From Raiders to Temple of Doom. There was a significant, you know, he beefed up, eighties beefed up, but not like this is pre Arnold and Sly beefing up. So. But if you watch that big fight scene in the mine, almost all of it is Vic Armstrong. Only close-up shots of Harrison and the big muscle guy, which were shot well afterwards when Harrison was, came back, the treatment was a success and he was healed. So he came back and they did all the establishing close-up shots of that fight, but everything else was Vic, but you can't tell because a he's fantastic and B they just look so much alike.

[31:00] J.J.: Well, one of the coolest things I love about Temple of Doom is that last sort of a scene when they're on the tracks. Cause I always thought, man, this would be a sweet ride. Like if they, if this ever got to a theme park or whatever, this would be a cool ride to have the, be on the tracks going from, you know, one, one thing to the other. Now let me ask you this because I, obviously I saw Temple of Doom in the theater. Did you see Last Crusade in the theater? Like at that point you were eight-ish years old.

[31:30] Olaf: So I've seen all of them in the theater. Right. But I'm not as, not as a child.

[31:36] J.J.: Okay. Okay. I understand. Cause I remember vividly going to the theater to see Last Crusade. Cause it was, it came out Memorial Day weekend, 1989. And it was like, again, the anticipation of another Indiana Jones movie. And this is well before the internet and well before all you're reading is like newspapers and watching entertainment tonight to get your entertainment news. And so it was hard to gauge. And of course I was young, people were, people nervous about this movie because Temple of Doom did leave a bad taste in people's mouths. I just remember being excited and I always saw it in a sold-out theater the day it came out and it was awesome. So because I was so young, I never, the idea of, oh, is this going to be good or bad or whatever never crossed my mind. It was just more Indiana Jones.

[32:34] Olaf: Yeah. Which is almost a better place to be, I think, because you have no preconceived notion of you got, you got to experience this character in these movies from a very pure sort of non-biased.

[32:46] J.J.: Yeah. There were no expectations. It was just, I'm going to see more of this character that I love and that's what it has always been. Right. I mean, I say always, that's what I would always was in the nineties for you, up to a certain point. Now Last Crusade, I remember again, I saw it with my family and who are, we were all of course, fans of the films, and talk about it's right up there for me with the first one. It's not a perfect film by any stretch, but they did something that seemed to work. I mean, by introducing Sean Connery as the father without like such a delayed pause there. Because he's only like 11 years older than Harrison Ford is. Uh, yeah, that might actually be less than that, but you're buying every moment of it. And that's not an 11-year-old's perception. That's like the viewer's perception. I think at any age, you never questioned that they could be that you, you believe that their father and son.

[34:00] Olaf: Yeah. I mean, Steven Spielberg was like, who can I get to play the father of Indiana Jones and his love for James Bond? And he's like, well, who better than James Bond himself? But you know, it's all he can do is ask, hey, sir Connery, are you, what do you think? Interested? Are you interested? He just won an Oscar like a year before, two years before. And he has turned down some huge franchises. Yeah. And a lot of those franchises he turned down, it was just because he just didn't get it. But this one, you're kind of being asked to sort of make fun of yourself. And it was one of those rare moments where he wasn't going to be wearing a wig. Right. So for him, I imagine that had to make him feel way more vulnerable.

But he had already kind of gone away from that. Like he did Untouchables a couple of years before where he won the Oscar for, and he had already kind of let go of that vanity. But for him to the grit, the balance that he did in this movie is he's, he's not the butt of the jokes, but he, he does play play. He leans into the, what's going on? Like, I'm just an archeologist. Like I'm a book guy. I sit by my desk. I've got the gray. I'm not about this life. I've never had an adventure. People are trying to kill us. Come on. They're coming back, dad. And he's like, well, I'm sorry. This is a new experience for me. And he's like, it happens to me all the time. I thought it was like, they're trying to kill us.

He goes, it happens to me all the time. That's when he's like, it happens to me all the time. That, and that's just one of the things. Cause we didn't even talk about the intro of the film, which I feel all three of these movies nail the intro, the first opening scene.

[35:48] J.J.: Yeah. I will say that Last Crusade did what the TV show never came close to doing, which was having a believable actor, young Indiana Jones with, you know, they did something that I typically hate with prequels is they gave you answers to things about the character that you don't necessarily need. Right. Like where did he get the whip? Where did he get the scar on his chin? When did he become afraid of snakes? I mean, it's like, we're going to answer all these questions. How did he get the hat? Yeah. And you know, I normally with prequels, I hate a lot of prequels because they do that. They, I don't need to know all the ins and outs of this character that I like. Part of what I like about a character is their mystery.

Right. And so many prequels have ruined a character or just missed the mark on the, that film itself, because they were so interested in answering those idiotic questions as opposed to telling a compelling story. But Last Crusade nailed it because it just, it all felt natural. It didn't really feel forced and River Phoenix absolutely nailed it, which he had already been working with Harrison on Mosquito Coast.

[37:11] Olaf: That's right. Yeah. So he had all the ins and outs of Harrison anyway. So he was able to mimic a lot of his mannerisms and just kind of be a great version of him as a young kid.

[37:26] J.J.: Yeah. I was going to ask you if you felt like if you were biased because you love the character so much, but I retract that because you would have been even more critical if they did.

[37:35] Olaf: Oh yeah. Yeah. You would have been even more critical of it. Yeah. Cause like a perfect example of that is the Han Solo movie. Yeah. Hated it. Never asked for it. Didn't need it. No. Harrison Ford had a complete character arc in the Star Wars films. I didn't need a prequel to find out how he got his gun. I didn't need to know that his last name wasn't Solo and some ticket sales guy gave it to him. You know, all of that stuff just killed it for me. I, it's terrible. But in Last Crusade, they nailed that. And they do. And it's interesting how, when we start to think about all the things that they tried to check off the list, like the whip, this, the scar, the snakes, the hat, um, you're right. Cause they, they are covering quite a bit in like a 12 to 15 minute opener.

[38:24] J.J.: It's very short. And I think what also helps is it's all done with a sense of fun, right?

[38:30] Olaf: Oh yeah. Completely. It's the same adventure.

[38:33] J.J.: Overly seriously.

[38:35] Olaf: No, you're just seeing this character have the same adventure, make it up as I go along type of, um, situation that we've already seen him do when he's as an adult. And so you just kind of go, oh, he's been like this his whole life, which like you said, River Phoenix nails from the very beginning because you already see where it's coming from, uh, what his, you know, incessant need to do what's right. And, and all of these things. And then you later find out, did it come from his dad or does it come from his mom? And I think you kind of get that it's a hybrid of both.

[39:11] J.J.: And even though at the very beginning of the film, you don't even see Connery, you hear his voice and you see his hand and he's writing in his journal and the brief exchange that they have, you totally see why River Phoenix's Indy is so already so serious at such a young age.

[39:32] Olaf: I wonder if, because it's little things like that. They have that five second exchange and you want more, like I'm just sitting here now talking, wishing that there would have been more of River Phoenix's Indy just because he was so good. You probably could have done an entire film with River as Indy and it probably would have done very well. But honestly, I'm glad we got what we got. I think any more would have been too much because it is a very delicate balance you have to play.

[40:09] J.J.: And even you see the dog for two seconds, a passing shot of the dog laying on the ground when he walks in.

[40:18] J.J. Gonzalez: I, anyway, and I'm sure you did as well, carried it all the way to the button at the end when he's like, we named the dog. And I don't know if that would have worked now or beyond that. The criticism I would have made is, oh, they're trying to make a joke about something that I'm supposed to remember that briefly happened at the beginning of the movie. But for some reason, it worked. I don't know. Maybe I'm being biased because we love these movies so much. But you do, you see the dog just laying there and you don't think anything of it. I think it was brilliant how it was shot because it is a very quick shot of this dog and then you never see it again. But when, I think it creates a more powerful joke at the end.

Oh, sure. You find out why. Saul is asking, this Indiana, where is it from? And Sean Connery's like, it's his name, Henry Jones, Jr. I like Indiana. And he's like, we named the dog Indiana. And it's just you as a person, as a viewer, have to process what he just said. And that whole process, I think it makes more of an impact. Because you have to think about it for a second. And then you enjoy it on a rewatch where you see the dog that maybe you didn't notice at the beginning.

[41:45] Olaf Adsit: Last Crusade, and I remember when the movie ended, it was so satisfying all the way down to the last shot where they're literally riding off into the sunset. Such a satisfying ending to a trilogy to a character. The whole story, obviously, they decided to go back to the roots of the Nazis. And back when John Williams was still making original music for film. Some of the best music of the franchise is in Last Crusade, in my opinion. That's 45 years old this year. I really was not a fan of Alison Doody, the female. I don't know. There was something about her, maybe it was a character slash acting that just sort of kind of... Well, she was very young. I think she was 19. I think she was 19 when she filmed that. I'm going to have to fact check that. No one held a candle to Marion Ravenwood. That character was so good. And no one has come close to it. Not even Karen Allen in her subsequent returns has come close to Marion.

[43:05] J.J. Gonzalez: In the first movie. No, I'll agree. And I can't throw Alison Doody under the bus without throwing Kate Capshaw under the bus because I did not like Kate Capshaw's character at all.

[43:17] Olaf Adsit: Not a lot of people did, and there were a lot of complaints about her character. But I never had an issue with it because I knew she's supposed to be this. She's just this nightclub singer who just wanted to hang out with rich people and live the good life. I understand.

[43:34] J.J. Gonzalez: Now she's just a princess. Out of her element. And she's forced into this. It never bothered me. I need to watch this movie again, and I will. And again, it's not like I never... It's been a while. Alison Doody was 23 when the movie came out, so she was young. She wasn't 19, but she was very young. And there's classic Hollywood again. We're going to throw this very young actress and pair them with a much older actor. But what I love is that they completely doubled down on that when they get captured. And in Harrison Ford, he was like, how did you know she was a Nazi? He said, well, she talks in her sleep, right? Which he adlibs this line, I believe. I believe he adlibs that line of the reaction. I'm not sure about that.

[44:17] Olaf Adsit: I thought I heard that, but they doubled down on that. It's like, not only are we going to pair her with Harrison Ford, but we're going to allude to the fact that she hooked up with Sean Connery as well.

[44:30] J.J. Gonzalez: Well, I think her character was doing it.

[44:33] Olaf Adsit: Exactly. And for the service of her country and the Nazis and whatnot. I agree completely. So she has no sort of moral compass at all. I just thought it was... And what a great line and what a great moment.

[44:45] J.J. Gonzalez: The moment was amazing. The looks that they both share.

[44:50] Olaf Adsit: They both do. Duh. I knew she was like, why did you believe her? I didn't believe her.

[44:54] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah. And then Connery's like, what? I'm just as good as the next man. And he's like, I was the next man.

[45:03] Olaf Adsit: Again, Sean Connery in this movie was such a pleasant surprise for me because I grew up watching James Bond, his James Bond movies. I mean, I'm a kid of the 80s too, and I'm only a couple of years older than you. But I watched Connery in Bond movies and even in things he did after he left James Bond. And for him to be, to see him in this role and to completely buy it, because there were moments too where he had to... He plays this sort of, I'm along for the ride, trying not to get hurt when he's with Indy. But then there are moments too where you understand where he's coming from and you understand why he does what he does and why he did what he did when he was trying to protect the grail and all that.

His performance was just so fresh and new for me as someone who's watched a lot of Sean Connery performances. I mean, he's always been the capable one, the tough one, and this time he's just book smarts and he doesn't know how to fight. He's not tactical. He's none of these things. He's just a normal professor, older guy. And he really leaned into that and it was so different. And what a performance. The only other time I've sort of seen that come out of him was Finding Forrester. That was probably the closest thing to it. And even then he had a full head of hair in that movie.

[46:29] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh yeah. He went back to the, I'm going to need a hair piece for that one, everybody.

[46:36] Olaf Adsit: Yeah. There's only been less than a handful of films where he's forgone the wig.

[46:41] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh yeah. No, he went right back to the hair for Humphrey Road October.

[46:47] Olaf Adsit: Oh, and what a wig too. It looks fantastic.

[46:50] J.J. Gonzalez: Fantastic piece he's wearing. That piece should have gotten a credit in the film because that thing is amazing. With the beard, looked amazing.

[46:58] Olaf Adsit: I completely agree. No, I loved the fact that they brought back Sala, that they brought back Marcus. They sort of, I think, and I feel it was very intentional when you think about what people call fan service now is, okay, how can we get the fans back on board with this movie? Okay. We're going to bring back the Nazis. We're going to bring back Sala. We're going to bring back these characters that were in the first movie that people remember, but Marcus wasn't in a bunch of the first one, but we're going to give them more to do. And it was just a lot of, and then we're going to have them go after the Holy Grail, which isn't the, I mean, he already went after the Ark of the Covenant. Why not? We're going to step it up and we're going to go for the Holy Grail.

[47:45] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah. Well, at the time, this was it. This was it. They were done. And they paired with Diet Coke. Diet Coke had commercials about, you chose wisely, you chose poorly. Diet Coke did a whole thing about picking the right diet soda. This was one of those, I feel, 89 was definitely that year where product placement tying into certain things, because I know Batman was doing the same thing with like, how can we connect to the consumer in a different way to promote the movie? This was definitely one of those ways.

[48:15] Olaf Adsit: Yeah. I didn't think there was any real fan service in Last Crusade, or if it was meant to be fan service, they did it in such a way that it worked seamlessly.

[48:28] J.J. Gonzalez: Right. And I don't say it, I'm just saying nowadays, that's what I think people would be calling fan service. Oh, we're going to bring back these characters. They're trying to create nostalgia because we're all in on nostalgia right now. But with Marcus and Sala are in it, it's natural. It makes sense for the story, not just, oh, we're just going to bring these people up. The Dial of Destiny, Sala being in the film makes no sense. I mean, don't get me wrong, it was a nice little moment, but it was completely-

[49:03] Olaf Adsit: Right. But the pure definition of fan service is we're going to wheel out Sala, we're going to put the hat on him, and we're going to give him a couple of scenes. And we're going to believe that he can punch a guy and knock him out.

[49:16] J.J. Gonzalez: It's Indiana Jones, man. They go back in time. So, I mean, you know.

[49:21] Olaf Adsit: Before we jump the shark to those, on a side note, in the Indiana Jones heyday of the 80s, they had choose-your-own-adventure books too, which I had a few, which I thought were great. I don't know if they still do choose-your-own-adventure books. It's been a while, but I loved the Indiana Jones choose-your-own-adventure books when I was a kid, side note. One of the last things that I love about Last Crusade is the ending of the film, like the last set piece, so to speak, where they go to Petra and he still has to do one last sort of adventure of getting through the obstacles to get to the grail. Let me ask you this. Do you feel he knew which was the right grail and which was the wrong grail before Donovan comes in?

[50:08] J.J. Gonzalez: No.

[50:09] Olaf Adsit: Do you think she knew? Because she's the one who gives it to him. She gives it to Donovan.

[50:14] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh, I see. Are you thinking that she set him up?

[50:17] Olaf Adsit: Right. I've always wondered.

[50:19] J.J. Gonzalez: I have thought of that myself, but I think ultimately, no, she doesn't know. I think that throughout this whole movie, she shows that she's just a spy who doesn't know anything about any of this, and she's just trying to get the info to her bosses that might know more. But then she does get drunk with the power of the idea.

[50:42] Olaf Adsit: Yes, absolutely, because she sees what it does, and she still believes that she can use this with her country and all that, even though she doesn't believe in all of the things that they stand for, like the book burning.

[50:59] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh, yeah. Right, right, right. But no, I think she really thought, this has to be it, just out of her own ignorance of what's going on and the topic. Donovan, just being a rich guy who knows a little bit about history, but doesn't know the specifics. I think up until we see that he chose poorly, I don't even think Indy had any idea.

[51:22] Olaf Adsit: Yeah, he was walking back and forth.

[51:25] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, you really see him having to think after the fact when it's now he has to choose, and you see her character going, wait, what? That's not it? So what is it going to be now? She's clueless. So yeah, I don't think it was meant to be like, oh, she stabbed him in the back or anything like that. I think it was literally her just doing her best with very little knowledge on the subject.

[51:52] Olaf Adsit: No, this has been fun, man, because the trilogy of Indiana Jones movies, and we can talk about the other two at a later point in time, because there are two other movies. I mean, we could talk about each of the films in the trilogy at length.

[52:06] J.J. Gonzalez: We could.

[52:07] Olaf Adsit: We just kind of hit the surface on all of them. I mean, there's so many wonderful things about each film that you could just do a deep dive into. And if anyone hasn't watched Indiana Jones in a while, go watch one of the originals.

[52:21] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah. Raiders of the Lost Ark. Sit down and just have a great time. So you're about to get swept away by a tornado.

[52:31] Olaf Adsit: I don't know. I'm in my bunker, but I don't know what's going on. I got to go figure out what's happening out there and see what's happening.

[52:39] J.J. Gonzalez: So we're definitely going to have to say goodbye for now. But man, what a fun time it's been to talk about one of the best characters in film. So I hope you had fun. I know I had fun.

[52:51] Olaf Adsit: This was awesome.

[52:52] J.J. Gonzalez: And I can't wait for what we talk about next.

[52:54] Olaf Adsit: Yeah, man. I'm looking forward to it. It's always a blast. Always a blast. So thank you.

[52:58] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah. So to be continued.

[53:01] Olaf Adsit: To be continued.

[53:03] Johnny Clay: Back to the Movie Theater is hosted by J.J. Gonzalez and Olaf Adsit.

[53:08] Johnny Clay: Produced by me, Johnny Clay, J.J. Gonzalez and Olaf Adsit.

[53:12] Johnny Clay: Theme song and incidental music by The Dimes.

[53:16] Johnny Clay: Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Back to the Movie Theater.

[53:20] Johnny Clay: And find us on YouTube at Back to the Movie Theater with J.J. and Olaf.

[53:32] Johnny Clay: Back to the Movie Theater with J.J. and Olaf Adsit.