Ep. 55 - Forgotten Gems! vol. 3

This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] J.J.: We're in the theater and we are going to be talking about Forgotten Gems. Those movies that were great and then just either disappeared or never really got the credit that was due. Could have been the marketing screwing up or whatever, but there are movies out there that just got missed. Maybe there were bigger movies that came out and just overshadowed or, you know, maybe they were great movies right at that time and then just quickly faded away and we've forgotten about. And this is our job to remind you that there are good movies out there. And we do this segment so infrequently that the episodes, Forgotten Gems episodes itself, are also Forgotten Gems. This is only vol. 3. A year in. And I have some thoughts. I thought about the Forgotten Gems that we've already done and the ones that we're about to do today, and I've noticed I may have a problem.

[1:04] Olaf: Oh, okay. For a second there, I thought you were going to let me know that I have a problem.

[1:09] J.J.: No, no, no, no. When it comes to the guilty pleasures, you like to bring in some far more prestigious, popular movies, whereas I know what the assignment is. When it comes to Forgotten Gems, it seems to be the opposite. Because I'm just I'm looking at the Rotten Tomatoes scores and the audience scores and of the movies you're going to talk about that I've talked about and that I'm going to talk about. And I think to myself, is this a guilty pleasure? But I don't think so, because I'm looking at it as a whole. I'm not just looking at it as I just love this movie and I get pleasure out of it, despite the fact that it's bad. So it's it's it's a weird, razor thin edge. I feel like I'm teetering on here.

[2:02] Olaf: I think it's a fine line. I mean, it's all subjective, really. But I think there's this understanding overall, like in the society way, societal way of movie going watching that. Yeah, there are gems out there that are like, man, yes, this movie. So, yeah, you might fall in. I think I think I'm 50 50 on this episode today. We'll see.

[2:21] J.J.: Oh, OK. We'll see. But before we do, let's get back into the movie theater so we can talk today about some more Forgotten Gems.

[2:44] Olaf: Well, after that stellar vote of confidence you've given for yourself, I feel like maybe you should start this thing off.

[2:53] J.J.: All right. Or I can start things off. I feel very confident about both of my movies.

[2:59] Olaf: And you should, because I know what you're I know what you did. And honestly, they're both ones I wanted to do. But we talked it over. It was like a verbal Rochambeau or something. It was in our production meeting. We had we I decided you could do those.

[3:18] J.J.: And I will say that I wouldn't put one of the two one of the two. We definitely had gone back and forth on who was going to talk about it. And you graciously let me have what I will which what I will start out with, which will be my first movie. Yeah, I'm starting off with my good one. We're just going to rip the bandaid right off here. So my first forgotten gem. And this is a forgotten gem. There's no question about it, because it is a great movie that nobody talks about. And frankly, I don't think it's enough credit. Came out in 1987, starring Steve Martin, Daryl Hannah, Shelley Duvall, Rick Rosovich, and all kinds of side players that are big names like Fred Willard, Michael J. Pollard. Damon Wayans is in this movie. Kevin Nealon makes a brief debut in this movie. So without any further to do, it is Roxanne.

[4:14] Olaf: Such a forgotten gem.

[4:19] J.J.: Yeah, I mean, it's just fantastic. Throw it out there. And frankly, as far as I can remember, this, I think, was my introduction to Steve Martin.

[4:25] Olaf: Oh, before Three Amigos?

[4:30] J.J.: Because this is came after Three Amigos. Yeah, but it was in the mid 80s, where I'm seeing movies way out of order from when they're coming out and whatnot, and what's on TV or what has my dad recorded on the VCR. So the 80s was a hodgepodge of movies that I'm seeing.

[4:47] Olaf: Right. No structured timeline for you.

[4:53] J.J.: So I can't recall seeing Three Amigos before this, but if I did, this is what had the biggest impact for me as far as Steve Martin goes.

[5:00] Olaf: So the next movie you saw with Steve Martin, you're like, oh, his nose is not that big.

[5:04] J.J.: Well, you know, I understood that, you know, this is not his face. The Rotten Tomatoes score for Roxanne is 88%.

[5:14] Olaf: Okay, yeah, I like that.

[5:21] J.J.: Yeah, that's a solid number. That's great. The audience score, 63%. This is because this is an audience that was unaware, I would assume, that this audience is unaware that this is actually an adaptation of a classic play.

[5:34] Olaf: Yeah, this is based on the play Sierno de Bergeac, and it's all about this ugly guy who's super smart and capable, but the prettiest woman in town is not going to be interested in him. They're interested in this other pretty boy who has no qualities whatsoever.

[5:49] J.J.: Except his looks.

[5:56] Olaf: Yeah, and the other cool thing about this is Steve Martin was not just the actor, he was an executive producer and the screenwriter. So this was the first movie for me where I went, oh, he also writes.

[6:09] J.J.: Yeah. Because I had seen some Steve obviously before, I was older, so I'd already seen some things. But knowing that he had written the screenplay, I went, oh, it was even more impressed. This movie is so well done, it's so put together. There's only like a couple issues that I have here and there, one of them being the music. This is by a composer, Bruce Meaton, who has done basically nothing. And the music is, I mean, yeah, it's like they wanted the music from Mannequin, but they couldn't afford it. So they got like a music version of it, I think.

[6:45] Olaf: Well, and it's typical 80s. They need that saxophone in the score.

[6:55] J.J.: It's not terrible. It's just kind of in the background and it's whatever. But I really was paying attention and I was just like, OK. This is directed by Fred Shapizzi or Shapizzi. We're going to say Fred Shapizzi. The best thing about this guy is he's directed two movies that I thoroughly enjoy other than Roxanne.

[7:09] Olaf: Oh, two more.

[7:16] J.J.: Yeah, I have three here listed. One of them I have not seen, but I know it's gotten some recognition here and there. And that was Empire Falls. Oh, yeah. But he also directed the romantic comedy IQ.

[7:28] Olaf: I love that movie.

[7:34] J.J.: I know you do. That's a guilty pleasure, by the way. That's not a forgotten. You want some clarification? That's a guilty pleasure. I understand. Not a forgotten gem. But it is wonderful. And he also directed Mr. Baseball Ball. So this was his highlight of his career. So he started off strong. And then as his directing career went on, I laughed out loud when I saw that he was the director of Mr. Baseball. I was like, I can't wait to bring this.

[8:01] Olaf: Also, not a forgotten gem. Mr. Baseball. Guilty.

[8:08] J.J.: Yeah, just straight up guilty. I don't know. It could be on my list. We'll see. It's, you know, it's the play, Cyrano de Bergerac, but it's put in modern times. Sure. And his name, his name is C.D. C.D. Bales, like a play off of Cyrano. Yeah. And he does some direct quotes from the play.

[8:27] Olaf: Yeah.

[8:32] J.J.: In it as well. And it's just so it's just so well done. And he's just he's great at everything. He's just got this real long Pinocchio nose.

[8:40] Olaf: Yeah.

[8:46] J.J.: And the major difference, I think, is in the play. If you haven't read it, spoiler is he doesn't live in the play. Cyrano's character. But obviously, this is, you know, a romantic comedy in the 80s Hollywood. And yeah, Daryl Hannah plays Roxanne. And honestly, this is one of my favorite performances of hers.

[8:59] Olaf: Yeah, I liked I like her. I liked I don't ever I liked her and pretty much everything she was doing in the 80s. I've always enjoyed her. But this yeah, this felt like she had more substance in her performance than some of her other stuff at that.

[9:03] J.J.: Yeah, I would agree with that. Rick Rossovich, fresh off of Top Gun. And that was how I recognized him was.

[9:22] Olaf: Yeah. Oh, Top Gun. That slider.

[9:28] J.J.: Yeah. But then, yeah, you look at the background characters, Fred Willard, Michael J. Pollard, the character actors, he the one who plays Andy, the is that Michael J. Pollard? He did Scrooge.

[9:33] Olaf: Yes. Scrooge and Tango and Cash.

[9:40] J.J.: Yeah. I love him. They're just in it for small bits and pieces. They're the volunteer firefighters in this small town. Terrible. Fred Willard is one of them. And he's the mayor. And he's one of the volunteer firemen.

[9:51] Olaf: Yeah. So they're in this like rich ski town.

[9:57] J.J.: Yeah. I was trying to figure where they were exactly. There's just in like a ski town. It's a small little town. And then you have Shelley Duvall, who owns a restaurant there. And her name is Dixie. And she's also renting this amazing house to rock. She's got like five houses she's renting, I think.

[10:08] Olaf: Yeah. And a few.

[10:14] J.J.: Yeah. But this house that Roxanne is staying in, oh, my gosh, it's incredible. The secondary characters really sort of fill in the picture of what this town is and what the vibe of the movie is, because there's no tension or drama except the relationship tension that is part of the story. And it's really good and it's really sweet and it's just done really well. Nobody in it is awful. You're not like that person.

[10:39] Olaf: No.

[10:46] J.J.: Yeah. Nobody sticks out in a negative way. Yeah. This could be a hot take, but Steve Martin, this is one of his best performances. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I disagree. But when you look at his entire career, I'm saying that this is.

[10:57] Olaf: So this would crack a top five for a top four or three for you.

[11:02] J.J.: This would probably be a top three performance. Wow. That's planes, trains and automobiles. And that's that says a lot because this is a forgotten gem, I think. Yeah, I think people that are listening to this are going to go, oh, yeah, or I've never heard of it because you get some of the classic silly Steve Martin when there's moments where he's just really big and comedic. But for the most part, he's just this sweet, caring guy who loves books and the town that he lives in. And he's he just doesn't. So he's so confident in himself and his nose, but he also has that insecurity that he doesn't think anybody would find him attractive in that way because of it.

[11:45] Olaf: Yeah.

[11:50] J.J.: And he does it in this very charming and sincere way, even at the beginning, because he's super confident walking out of his house.

[11:57] Olaf: Oh, yeah. The two skiers.

[12:05] J.J.: Yes, indeed. I'm slipping and I'm back.

[12:10] Olaf: Yeah, the his sword, his sword fights with Kevin Nealon and his friend friend, these two drunk skiers that are heading up the hill. I don't know where they're going because there's no snow.

[12:15] J.J.: Yeah, well, I was also I was trying to think, oh, the sun is setting. Is the sun rising or is the sun setting when this movie starts?

[12:20] Olaf: It's setting.

[12:26] J.J.: It is. I thought it was rising. So I can't I feel like he's I will say it was really hard to determine, at least in the first couple of shots, the time.

[12:28] J.J.: Welcome back to the movie theater! This is episode 55, and we are diving into another round of Forgotten Gems!

[12:58] Olaf: That's right! We’re excited to revisit some films that might have slipped under the radar for many.

[13:13] J.J.: Today, we’re talking about four movies: Roxanne, Sneakers, The Edge, and Dave.

[13:25] Olaf: These are all fantastic films that deserve a second look.

[13:52] J.J.: Let’s kick things off with Roxanne. This 1987 romantic comedy stars Steve Martin and Daryl Hannah.

[14:12] Olaf: It's a modern retelling of Cyrano de Bergerac, and Martin's performance is just brilliant.

[14:32] J.J.: Absolutely! The humor in this film is timeless, and the way he navigates his character's insecurities is relatable.

[14:52] Olaf: Plus, the dialogue is sharp and witty. It’s one of those films that really showcases Martin's comedic talent.

[15:12] J.J.: And the chemistry between the leads is undeniable. Daryl Hannah brings a charm that complements Martin perfectly.

[15:32] Olaf: I think it’s a film that really highlights the importance of being true to oneself.

[15:52] J.J.: Moving on to our next gem, Sneakers. This 1992 film features an ensemble cast including Robert Redford, Sidney Poitier, and Dan Aykroyd.

[16:02] Olaf: Sneakers is such a fun mix of espionage, technology, and comedy.

[16:12] J.J.: It’s a clever heist film that keeps you guessing until the end. The plot twists are fantastic!

[16:32] Olaf: And the dynamic between the characters is so engaging. You really feel like you’re part of the team.

[16:52] J.J.: Definitely! The film also touches on some interesting themes about privacy and technology that are still relevant today.

[17:12] Olaf: Now, let’s talk about The Edge. This 1997 thriller stars Anthony Hopkins and Alec Baldwin.

[17:32] J.J.: It’s a gripping survival story that really tests the characters’ limits.

[17:52] Olaf: The tension between Hopkins and Baldwin is palpable, and it adds a layer of complexity to the story.

[18:12] J.J.: Plus, the cinematography is stunning. The wilderness becomes a character in its own right.

[18:32] Olaf: It’s a film that explores themes of survival, trust, and betrayal in such an intense way.

[18:52] J.J.: Finally, we have Dave. This 1993 comedy stars Kevin Kline as a presidential look-alike who gets caught up in politics.

[19:12] Olaf: It’s such a charming film! Kline’s performance is both funny and heartfelt.

[19:32] J.J.: The premise is so unique, and it really makes you think about the nature of leadership and integrity.

[19:52] Olaf: And the supporting cast, including Sigourney Weaver, adds so much to the story.

[20:12] J.J.: It’s a feel-good movie that leaves you with a smile, and it’s definitely worth revisiting.

[20:32] Olaf: So there you have it! Four Forgotten Gems that we hope you’ll check out again.

[20:52] J.J.: Thanks for joining us today! Don’t forget to subscribe and follow us on social media.

[21:12] Olaf: We’ll see you next time for more cinematic adventures!

[21:32] J.J.: Until then, keep watching those movies!

[21:52] Olaf: Bye, everyone!

[22:12] J.J.: Bye!

[22:33] Olaf: Take care!

[22:58] J.J.: See you soon!

[23:18] Olaf: Bye!

[23:38] J.J.: Bye!

[23:58] Olaf: Bye!

[24:18] J.J.: Bye!

[24:38] Olaf: Bye!

[24:58] J.J.: The director was Lee Tamahori. He did Along Came a Spider, which I think is a good movie.

[25:04] Olaf: But then he did Die Another Day, one of the worst Bond movies out there.

[25:09] J.J.: It is. It's the worst Bond movie, in my opinion.

[25:14] Olaf: The Rotten Tomatoes score, 63%. Which is, you know, it's not great.

[25:21] J.J.: This is your time to defend and come to bat for this movie.

[25:27] Olaf: The audience score is 70%, so at least the audience is a little more appreciative. It's about a billionaire who goes to Alaska with his supermodel girlfriend, who has our supermodel wife for a photo shoot.

[25:37] J.J.: Alec Baldwin plays the photographer. Anthony Hopkins is the billionaire.

[25:46] Olaf: Honestly, this is like either a prequel to Meet Joe Black, and this is just Bill Parish. Because he does it right after this movie. He does Meet Joe Black right after this. He's two billionaires that honestly feel pretty similar.

[25:54] J.J.: His character in this is a little more shy, a little more to himself. I was trying to figure out what his, not to say issues, but what he was dealing with because he was very aloof and sort of standoffish.

[26:09] Olaf: I think this character is very much happy on his own with his books.

[26:14] J.J.: He's a voracious reader, and he has all this knowledge.

[26:29] Olaf: Theoretical knowledge.

[26:31] J.J.: Theoretical, that he calls it. That he's never actually put to the test. He knows all kinds of survival techniques, and he's always spouting off information.

[26:41] Olaf: You can tell that the people around him are like, Charles, please be quiet.

[26:46] J.J.: Save your energy.

[26:48] Olaf: Yeah. They go out there, and then Alec Baldwin's character sees this picture of a Native American. He's like, I gotta have this guy in my photo shoot. Let's go find him.

[27:00] J.J.: He's out in the wilderness bear hunting. They convince Anthony Hopkins to go along, because he's never really been on any adventures. Why not?

[27:09] Olaf: So, there you go. It's the pilot. It's Alec Baldwin. It is Anthony Hopkins, and it is Harold Perrineau, who we all know from Lost.

[27:19] J.J.: And the Matrix sequels.

[27:21] Olaf: Yes, Lost. And there's a bird strike. The plane crashes. Pilot dies. It's just the three of them.

[27:28] J.J.: Surviving in the wilderness of Alberta, Canada is where they filmed it.

[27:33] Olaf: It's quite cold. Anthony Hopkins actually had a slipped disc during the filming of this.

[27:40] J.J.: Really?

[27:41] Olaf: Yeah.

[27:42] J.J.: Wow, there's a lot of action and movement in this.

[27:45] Olaf: And he did a lot of his own stunts. I mean, you can tell when it's a stunt guy. But they did a good job of showing them running.

[27:53] J.J.: That's them running in the woods. Anthony Hopkins said that he just used that pain that he was in for his performance, which I think kind of explains why in the earlier film, before the plane crash, he is a little stiff, a little standoffish.

[28:10] Olaf: Yeah, you're like, are you okay, man? Like, is something eating? Like, you could just tell his character might be dealing with some things.

[28:18] J.J.: Yeah. It's like, what's going on? Are we supposed to like you? When they arrive, he's kind of pouting because he thinks everyone has forgotten that today is his birthday.

[28:30] Olaf: But they end up surprising him later. With gifts that'll come into play as the movie goes on.

[28:35] J.J.: Yeah. So we find out that not only are they trying to survive in the wilderness, but now they're trying to survive from a giant bear that is stalking them.

[28:47] Olaf: And then we also find out that Alec Baldwin's character has been having an affair.

[28:52] J.J.: Well, this is the interesting part, because I'll admit that I saw this movie when it came out in the late 90s. And then I didn't touch it at all. And it was just kind of maybe because I don't have the same feel for it like you do. So for me, this would not be Forgotten Jim. So I'm watching it on a rewatch, almost with fresh eyes.

[29:12] Olaf: And yes, they sort of possibly allude that that is happening. But they really don't.

[29:18] J.J.: Well, it's not proven until.

[29:20] Olaf: Right. They don't lean into it. But because you're right, like right before the bird strike, Anthony Hopkins turns to Alec Baldwin in the plane. He's like, so, you know, you like you're hanging out with my wife. So how are you planning on killing me? And then the bird strike.

[29:34] J.J.: And then the bird strike happens.

[29:35] Olaf: And then they sort of talk a little bit. Sort of. They talk about it all the time.

[29:41] J.J.: They do. David. What you did mention is David Mamet wrote this screenplay. David Mamet is one of the best 20th century playwright, American playwrights. One of only two that he wrote that he did not direct.

[29:55] Olaf: And so then he is also a screenwriter as well. So for me, that was like, OK, I love David Mamet. So and but to me, even this script sort of felt a little. But they did really do a really good job of, yes, talking about the possibility of you're going to kill me, especially when they first crashed. Because Alec Baldwin kept joking about it.

[30:14] J.J.: Well, I can't kill you yet. I need you to get me out of here. And you know, it's kind of like, did he really.

[30:23] Olaf: Right. It's just really going to do it. Joking between them always feels very tense.

[30:29] J.J.: Yes, because they're not really friends.

[30:32] Olaf: Yeah, he does. Anthony Hopkins character doesn't really have friends.

[30:35] J.J.: Right. Also, so Anthony Hopkins character's name is Charles in this movie. And Alec Baldwin's character says the word Charles.

[30:41] Olaf: I want I believe it was like 86 times.

[30:49] J.J.: So many times. In this movie. Charles, Charles.

[30:52] Olaf: And he would float in and out of his like New York accent sometimes. Like whenever he was smoking, he had this like more pronounced New York accent. What do you think we're going to do?

[31:01] J.J.: Yeah. But it's, you know, even if it's just like a survival thriller, it's really enjoyable. There are a lot of tense moments. Bart the Bear comes off as incredibly scary.

[31:13] Olaf: And the music that they throw in with it really, really helps. And the scenes with Bart the Bear and the cast are really great.

[31:22] J.J.: Yeah, they're very wonderfully shot. In fact, the trainer for Bart the Bear even said that Anthony Hopkins did the majority of his scenes with the bear.

[31:33] Olaf: With the bear? Instead of a stunt person.

[31:36] J.J.: Nice. This was also one of Bart the Bear's final acting roles. He passed away in May of 2000 at the age of 23.

[31:45] Olaf: Is this the same bear from Legends of the Fall?

[31:48] J.J.: Maybe. I mean, Bart the Bear was in a lot of movies.

[31:52] Olaf: Right. If there was a bear in it, it was probably him.

[31:55] J.J.: It was probably him until 97.

[31:57] Olaf: Yeah. I'd forgotten how much Harold Perrineau was in it. When he gets on the plane with him, I'm like, oh, well, he's clearly not going to live, but I wonder if he's going to—

[32:06] J.J.: His character even says, this is the sort of thing a brother dies in.

[32:12] Olaf: There were certain things like that where I was like, come on.

[32:17] J.J.: A little cliche to write that, mammoth.

[32:19] Olaf: I mean, it's like he might as well have just been wearing red also for all the Star Trek fans out there.

[32:25] J.J.: I was going to say, wasn't he?

[32:27] Olaf: No, he wasn't. He was wearing a blue pullover.

[32:30] J.J.: He wasn't.

[32:31] Olaf: Yeah. One of the things they sort of threw me off is like Anthony—two things. He's like, I know how to make a compass. And so they do this compass thing, and they set off, and they end up circling back to the actual camp.

[32:44] J.J.: And I'm thinking, well, did you do this on purpose? Probably not. But are you—do you just not know, Anthony Hopkins? Like what—I thought—

[32:52] Olaf: Well, I thought of that. I thought about that too because in real life, humans tend to favor their dominant side. And we'll, over long distances, tend to walk in a circle if they don't have the proper—

[33:06] J.J.: It's a big circle.

[33:08] Olaf: Proper guidance. Well, it has to be big. You'll notice it if it's small. But if you look at what happens to them between them getting their bearing and then ending up back, I don't know how they kept track of where they were going to begin with.

[33:23] J.J.: Yeah, totally. Because they run into Bart the Bear pretty early on, and then they're running and scrambling, and then they're climbing over a river and all this stuff. There's no way they still knew where they were going after that.

[33:38] Olaf: My other issue is in that same scene when Hopkins tells Harold Perrineau, hey, I need—make a spear. Here's my knife. Make a spear. I'm going to go talk to Alec Baldwin. And then five minutes later, Harold Perrineau has somehow managed to slice his leg open.

[33:54] J.J.: And here's the thing. I know that's silly, but people do that.

[33:59] Olaf: I bet you he had the stick on his leg, and he's trying to carve. It gets stuck, and he yanks it, and it just goes right into his leg. People do that all the time.

[34:06] J.J.: I guess. I know it's convenient, and I know it's stupid. But that sort of thing happens all the time.

[34:14] Olaf: The only thing that justifies that in my mind is that he's a city boy.

[34:19] J.J.: Harold's a city boy.

[34:20] Olaf: Oh, yeah. I mean, I know that. But I'm like, come on.

[34:24] J.J.: I can understand where you're coming from because we all want to be like, why'd you do that? Common sense.

[34:31] Olaf: Right. But there's plenty of times where I've done something similar. You know, we all have those moments where we're doing something, and it backfires.

[34:39] J.J.: True.

[34:40] Olaf: Yeah. I will say this. There's a moment at the end where they get to the abandoned shack, and they find the rifle in the map, and they realize this canoe. We're going to go. I was like, I know Alec Baldwin's not going to make it. But I couldn't remember if he really is.

[35:01] J.J.: Oh, he is going to kill him.

[35:05] Olaf: Or he is. That is the plan. And then it backfires. We didn't need him anymore.

[35:09] J.J.: Right. But it backfires. And I'm like, why? Now I want Baldwin to live. I never wanted him to not live. I didn't want him to die.

[35:14] Olaf: Right. So I'm like, man, it would be really nice if because you're right. You see the character of Anthony Hopkins. He's like, look, you try to kill me, but I'm still going to try and save your life, or we're going to get home.

[35:26] J.J.: Yeah. I guess he needed to die, I suppose.

[35:29] Olaf: Well, he didn't need to die, but Mamet and the script dictated it early on.

[35:34] J.J.: Yes. They say a couple times why most people die in the woods is because they die of shame. And Alec's dying of shame because he's being rescued by the man he's having an affair and that he just tried to kill.

[35:46] Olaf: So it was kind of lame because it just seemed like the rescue chopper is there and he just decided to roll over and die.

[35:53] J.J.: And die. I know.

[35:59] Olaf: The last line of the movie, I thought, was the best line of the movie.

[36:07] J.J.: Oh, absolutely.

[36:09] Olaf: Yeah. It's a tight close up of Anthony Hopkins on the front porch.

[36:14] J.J.: Yeah.

[36:15] Olaf: And the reporter asks, you know, what are these two friends? Whatever. And he goes, they saved my life. They died saving my life.

[36:21] J.J.: They died saving my life. And it's so it's got so many different meanings to it. I mean, he's a different person now than he was when he left.

[36:29] Olaf: He is. His life has been saved on those levels. Should he choose to, you know, stick with the man? He didn't choose to dishonor anybody or drag anybody into the mud about.

[36:40] J.J.: And he's like about to cry, break down and cry or whatever.

[36:43] Olaf: Yeah. So he goes back to New York and, you know, he meets Joe Black.

[36:49] J.J.: Yeah. Basically. I kept thinking that throughout the whole movie. I'm just like, this is kind of Bill Parish right here.

[36:57] Olaf: It's the scripts that land on his table. He's like, yeah, I can play another billionaire. Do I have to be in the world? I can just be in nice suits in New York City. Done.

[37:06] J.J.: Yeah. I don't have to grow a beard or be in Alaska in the blizzard. Check. I think there could be some debate on whether or not this is considered a guilty pleasure or a forgotten gem.

[37:15] Olaf: But I would lean over to the other category for me.

[37:20] J.J.: I would stand firm that it is a forgotten gem. I think it's a very.

[37:25] J.J. Gonzalez: Vol. 3.

[37:55] Olaf Adsit: Vol. 3.

[38:25] J.J. Gonzalez: Vol. 3.

[38:26] Olaf Adsit: Vol. 3.

[38:26] J.J. Gonzalez: Vol. 3.

[38:28] Olaf Adsit: Vol. 3.

[38:29] J.J. Gonzalez: Vol. 3.

[38:30] Olaf Adsit: Vol. 3.

[38:30] J.J. Gonzalez: Vol. 3.

[38:31] Olaf Adsit: Vol. 3.

[38:31] J.J. Gonzalez: Vol. 3.

[38:32] Olaf Adsit: Vol. 3.

[38:33] J.J. Gonzalez: Vol. 3.

[38:34] Olaf Adsit: Vol. 3.

[38:34] J.J. Gonzalez: Vol. 3.

[38:35] Olaf Adsit: Vol. 3.

[38:36] J.J. Gonzalez: Vol. 3.

[38:36] Olaf Adsit: Vol. 3.

[38:50] J.J. Gonzalez: What a great movie. What a great cast. It's so fun to watch. Everybody does such a great job.

[38:57] Olaf Adsit: I love the music.

[38:58] J.J. Gonzalez: I know that I've seen a lot of this cast in other things prior, but like Frank Langella I think didn't really stick out until this.

[39:03] Olaf Adsit: This was the first movie for me that stuck. He stuck. Yeah.

[39:10] J.J. Gonzalez: Because I'd never associated him with Masters of the Universe. Like he's Skeletor, but I mean he's buried under the makeup and whatnot. Frank Langella, you know, yeah, but this movie, the '90s were great when it came to double features. We need to promote this movie, so we're going to put it with this other movie that's already been out for a few weeks, and it's always a movie that has nothing to do with it. They're not similar genres in any way.

[39:32] Olaf Adsit: So I saw this, I remember I saw it with my mom. I want to say with my cousin also. This was a double feature with This Boy's Life starring Robert De Niro and a young Leonardo DiCaprio.

[39:42] J.J. Gonzalez: Wow.

[39:47] Olaf Adsit: Which was based off of a true story about Thomas Wolfe.

[39:50] J.J. Gonzalez: Totally different movies.

[39:50] Olaf Adsit: Yeah.

[39:50] J.J. Gonzalez: Completely. But this movie, we're in the theater, comes on and the music is, it's this upbeat score, you're in Washington D.C., and it's obviously got the political backdrop. Kevin Kline, I was already familiar with a lot of stuff he had already done. Pretty much everybody had already been sort of the main characters, right? Sigourney Weaver, fresh off of Alien 3, so her hair is growing back after she shaved it for Alien 3. That's why she's, I mean, short hair in this movie. I'll say it anytime we talk about Sigourney Weaver, she's just the best, and she's so beautiful, and I don't care what her hairstyle is, I'm in.

[40:27] Olaf Adsit: No, no, no, no. So I didn't know much about this movie going into it.

[40:32] J.J. Gonzalez: Same. So, you know, you watch it, and Kevin Kline gets off the helicopter as the president with the First Lady, and they're waving and whatnot, and then they sort of go their separate ways in the White House, and you go, "Oh, okay." And then it cuts to the next scene, and Kevin Kline is coming back out, but he's playing a different character, and I'm like, "Wait a minute, what's happening here?"

[40:45] Olaf Adsit: Yeah.

[40:52] J.J. Gonzalez: Is he the president? Oh, oh, okay, I get it. Well, he has a different hairstyle. What's going on? His name's Dave.

[40:58] Olaf Adsit: Okay.

[40:58] J.J. Gonzalez: And much like Steve Martin, much like Steve Martin's way of being able to create these likable, affable characters like Roxanne, that's how I felt about Kevin Kline in this movie. He's this everyday guy who wants to give everybody, he owns a temp agency, he's trying to give everybody a job, who happens to look like the president and leans into that local community, which is a far cry from Bill Mitchell, who's the president, also played by Kevin Kline, who's a total jerk and a total a-hole, who's having an affair with Laura Linney in one of her first film roles.

[41:33] Olaf Adsit: Oh, that's right, I forgot she was in this.

[41:33] J.J. Gonzalez: She's the one he's having an affair with, and so, yeah, you know, he has a massive stroke on the night where Kevin Kline, Dave, has already been asked to double for the president because sometimes the president needs a double.

[41:49] Olaf Adsit: Yeah.

[41:49] J.J. Gonzalez: Certain things, and so he's just supposed to walk down this long hallway, wave, and then get in the car, and that's it.

[41:57] Olaf Adsit: What I love about this scene is that they make this destination from the hotel all the way to the limo, it's like 50 yards, like half of a football field, and as he first starts walking, you know, he's sort of very to himself, and then he starts to gain confidence as he's walking closer to the car, and he starts doing a lot of the gestures and all the things, and then the Franklin Joe is the last thing he does is he turns around, "God bless you, God bless America," and he gets in the car.

[42:26] J.J. Gonzalez: Ving Rhames, this was the first movie I, because this is the year right before Pulp Fiction.

[42:31] Olaf Adsit: Yeah, Pulp Fiction didn't come out yet, so this is like the first thing I'd ever seen Ving Rhames in, and he's somewhat compared to his look after, completely different mustache, he's got hair, totally unrecognizable except the voice, of course.

[42:35] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, I forgot he was in this. He plays the head secret service guy, Dwayne.

[42:47] Olaf Adsit: He's great too. He's in a good portion of it because he's like the head of the...

[42:53] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, he's a great supporting character that really becomes like an ally.

[42:58] Olaf Adsit: Yeah, and he's a great sort of straight man to Dave because Dave is sort of all over, and much like secret service has to be just very straightforward and whatnot.

[43:04] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, he's fantastic. No, Franklin Jella and Kevin Dunn are perfect in these roles as like the chief of staff, and Frank wants to be the president, and that's his... he is the villain of... he is the absolute antagonist of this film.

[43:22] Olaf Adsit: And so, yeah, you get this sort of scenario of this everyday guy trying to do good in the ultimate temp job of being president. One of the things I did sort of clock when I first saw it is there was a movie that came out five years before this with Richard Dreyfus and Raoul Julia called Moon over Peridot, and it's basically the same plot where Richard Dreyfus plays an actor who goes over to this fake country where this dictator is rich and whatever, also played by Richard Dreyfus, and the dictator dies while Richard Dreyfus is there as an actor, and so then he has to then step in.

[44:02] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a classic story trope that's been used many times before, but this movie is better.

[44:09] Olaf Adsit: Yeah, I mean, the cast is so good. The cast is stacked, but I love that they were able to get a lot of the political talking heads of that time are also in it, yeah, as themselves, including Oliver Stone, who has this sort of small part where he's like, "If you look at a picture of Bill Mitchell before the stroke, and then you look at a picture from after, you can see there's some significant differences," and sort of leaning into the conspiracy part of it.

[44:31] J.J. Gonzalez: No, this movie just, you feel good. Like I watched it just recently, obviously, so we can talk about it, and before I knew it, it was like 1 a.m., and I gotta go to bed because I just watched it from beginning to end, where normally I probably would have stopped it to go to sleep, but I once caught a fish this big. Such a classic feel-good movie. I mean, that is the definition of this movie, is a feel-good movie, and that's Ivan Reitman too, like in the hands of this type of director who can make these types of movies but also get the performances out of all of the characters.

[45:03] Olaf Adsit: There's so much sincerity.

[45:08] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, you believe it. You know, he's not too good. Like you're not going, "Oh, nobody can be this good." Charles Grodin, I think Franklin Jella's character even says that in the movie, "Nobody's this good."

[45:13] Olaf Adsit: I love when he goes, "I'm gonna kill him," and Kevin knows that you can't kill him.

[45:19] J.J. Gonzalez: He's the president.

[45:24] Olaf Adsit: No, he's not. He's an ordinary person.

[45:24] J.J. Gonzalez: I can kill an ordinary person. I can kill a hundred ordinary people.

[45:28] Olaf Adsit: Yeah, he's so good in this. I mean, everybody is. Viper Man, he's great. And Charles Grodin, who plays like Dave's friend, like he's like an accountant or whatever, he brings them into the White House so they can balance the... not balance the budget, but they need to eliminate 650 million dollars from the budget of like excess spending so they can save in these...

[45:44] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, he's great in the movie. Bonnie Hunt in a small sort of cameo as a tour guide. The Rotten Tomatoes score is 95.

[45:57] Olaf Adsit: Okay, the audience score, take a guess.

[46:06] J.J. Gonzalez: 88.

[46:06] Olaf Adsit: That's nice.

[46:12] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh, really? Lower?

[46:12] Olaf Adsit: 72.

[46:16] J.J. Gonzalez: See, that's a crime. Yeah, because that's people just not appreciating how great this movie actually is. I'm just shocked at how big of a difference.

[46:20] Olaf Adsit: That's a huge difference.

[46:27] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, wow, that surprises me. I mean, I'm glad that the Rotten Tomatoes score is... that's deserving.

[46:32] Olaf Adsit: Well, the critics like it, but the audience...

[46:37] J.J. Gonzalez: Yes, 23 difference. That's... I don't know why. I mean, it's not other side of the tracks bougie, highbrow. It's definitely not that, so I don't understand why an audience wouldn't lean into the sincerity of this movie. I mean, even Ben Kingsley is serviceable as the vice president, who sort of gets thrown under the bus because he's the boy scout, and they set him up to try to fail.

[47:00] Olaf Adsit: But I really enjoyed this. I love this movie.

[47:06] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, I hadn't seen it in a long time. If you made me choose between this or The American President with Michael Douglas, I would choose this.

[47:11] Olaf Adsit: Yeah, I would too. I mean, The American President has Aaron Sorkin going for it, I believe.

[47:17] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, I mean, it is also a great movie, and it is a great movie. Great director, cast, and everything, but yeah, if I have to choose which one I want to watch right now, it's Dave.

[47:22] Olaf Adsit: Yeah, I think the reason why for me is because even though it's got a political background, backdrop, that's not what it's about. It's not two people sort of trying to sit in the White House. It's they're just trying to get by, and you have to wonder, like, Frank Langella has a plan, like, "I'm going to do this for a couple of weeks, and then he's going to nominate me as the VP, and then I'm going to take over because the real president is not coming back." Bill Mitchell, the real Bill Mitchell, is a vegetable. You know, he's not going to recover, and so Langella's plan is, "Well, thanks, Dave, you've done your job. Name me vice president, so then I'll be president."

[48:04] J.J. Gonzalez: But other than that, any sort of tension that's created by Frank Langella is quickly diffused because that's not what the movie's about.

[48:09] Olaf Adsit: Yeah, it's a fantastic movie. I would like to believe, much like Sneakers, that people are going, "Yeah, oh, I remember Dave," or, you know, because, well, I think Dave had a bigger box office than Sneakers did, so maybe either way.

[48:16] J.J. Gonzalez: I mean, those are both great movies. Great job on your picks.

[48:23] Olaf Adsit: Yeah, I think I did okay. I don't know.

[48:29] J.J. Gonzalez: We're not judging here.

[48:29] Olaf Adsit: I'm standing by what I picked. I think The Edge is a great movie. It's not a guilty pleasure, so there we are, guys.

[48:35] J.J. Gonzalez: We hope you enjoyed our picks today. Go check them out. Our next guilty pleasures episode, I'm gonna talk about The Edge.

[48:40] Olaf Adsit: Everybody, no, I'm kidding. I'm not. It's not even on that list for me.

[48:46] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, I know.

[48:46] Olaf Adsit: Anyway, guys, thank you so much for joining us again for another Forgotten Gems episode. We hope you enjoyed them. We hope you check them out if you haven't seen them, and if you have but it's been a while, revisit. I think you'll really enjoy yourself. The beauty of these types of episodes is that, yeah, hopefully we'll introduce you to a movie that you may have missed or remind you of a great movie you have forgotten about.

[49:03] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, and until then, to be continued. Back to the movie theater is hosted by J.J. Gonzalez and Olaf Adsit, produced by me, Johnny Clay, J.J. Gonzalez, and Olaf Adsit. Theme song and incidental music by The Dimes. Visit us at bttmtpodcast.com for trivia, playalongs, merch, and more. That's bttmtpodcast.com. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok, and find us on YouTube at Back to the Movie Theater with J.J. and Olaf.