Ep. 53 - The Franchise Who Lived! part 5

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[0:01] J.J.: What's up, JJ? It's been good. Been really enjoying some of the things that we talk about are movies that I haven't seen in a while.

[0:11] Olaf: Sure, yeah. So I get really excited about the fact that I'm going to have to re-watch something that I haven't seen to get ready for the show that we do.

[0:18] J.J.: Specifically, what we're talking about today, which is we're going to continue through what we just talked about last week.

[0:24] Olaf: We're actually picking up right where we left off with this franchise. So without wasting any more time, let's get back to the movie theater.

[0:31] J.J.: I was really excited about re-watching Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince because I realized that I hadn't really... There's a lot of it I didn't remember. So where normally I'm sitting there and I'm taking notes, this one I was just like, you know what? I'm going to sit here and watch this almost like I'm watching it for the first time.

[1:11] J.J.: I typically, every year, will re-watch a couple franchises. I might not watch all of them in one go. Over like a week, I'll watch the whole franchise of whatever franchise it is. So they're not that far removed in my mind. But yes, Half-Blood Prince, I was really excited to sit and watch and stayed excited throughout the whole movie. I really enjoy this movie. I enjoy the whole franchise. I really do.

[1:37] Olaf: Yeah, absolutely. But I know before we dive into this movie in any way, shape, or form, there's always the introductory business that we like to lay out for the crowd.

[1:46] J.J.: All right, Half-Blood Prince came out in 2009. Rotten Tomatoes has it at an 83%. Audience score, 78%.

[1:56] Olaf: That surprises me because this movie feels like it should at least be in the mid-80s.

[2:00] J.J.: Yeah, I was shocked to see that it was lower than the critics' score and it wasn't even in the 80s. It was 78. So I don't know why.

[2:09] J.J.: David Yates is our director. He's back. I mean, he's in it for the rest of the run. As well as our composer, Nicholas Hooper, who just continues to do an amazing job with the music.

[2:21] J.J.: As far as who's joining the cast, we have Dave Lugino, but he was Fenrir Greyback, who unfortunately passed away in 2014. Jesse Cave as Lavender Brown.

[2:35] Olaf: Yeah, she was great, off of a recommendation from Emma Watson.

[2:39] J.J.: Hero finds Tiffin. Tom Riddle, also Ralph Fiennes' nephew.

[2:45] Olaf: Yeah, now this is the Tom who's like the 11-year-old Tom.

[2:48] J.J.: We get Jim Broadbent joining us as Professor Horace Slughorn. He does such a great job. Again, at this point, we shouldn't be surprised as this is the sixth film, but every time they need to hire or cast an older actor for these professor roles, they've got such an amazing well that they go to and they seem to always land on the perfect person.

[3:09] J.J.: And then, finally, we get Helen McCrory as Narcissa Malfoy, who had originally been tapped to be Bellatrix Lestrange, but she was pregnant at the time and couldn't take it, so it ends up being her sister, Narcissa Malfoy.

[3:24] Olaf: Yeah, she's great, too. And it's wild to think that we're six movies in, and now we're just seeing Draco Malfoy's mom.

[3:30] J.J.: As far as the movies are concerned, it almost feels like you wonder, was Jason Isaacs not available to continue this sort of... because you feel like Lucius probably would have been the character to still be in the forefront, but I really like the fact that they bring in the mom to also let us know she's just as bad.

[3:50] Olaf: I don't know. Watching the movie, it didn't quite feel like she was just as bad. It just felt like this is the side I've chosen, and I really care about my son.

[4:01] J.J.: Yeah, and she's willing to do whatever needs to be done to protect her son. I understand that as well. I could be way off because, again, I have not read the books, only watched the movies. Isn't Lucius Malfoy in Azkaban right now? Isn't that why he's not there?

[4:16] Olaf: Unless he's in hiding. I think Lucius might have gotten arrested for being a Death Eater.

[4:21] J.J.: As far as some behind-the-scenes stuff, what I thought was really fascinating was, this is Daniel Radcliffe's least favorite of his own performance in the franchise.

[4:33] Olaf: Correct. He was stating in an interview back in 2014 that he just was not very good in it, and calling it hard to watch. And he also revealed that at the time, he was struggling with alcohol.

[4:47] J.J.: Which I had no idea.

[4:48] Olaf: No, I had no idea. And according to him, you can tell in certain scenes that he was intoxicated, or at least he can tell.

[4:55] J.J.: He can tell. Yeah, he said that his performance was very one-note, and that he was getting real complacent with just what he was doing. Rewatching this movie, I didn't really feel like it was that much of a one-note.

[5:06] Olaf: No, and neither does David Yates. Even the directors on record are saying, no, he does a really good job, especially with some of the light comedy elements that he's doing in the film.

[5:17] J.J.: We're our own worst critics, so it's...

[5:19] Olaf: We are, but if you look at his performance in 4 and 5, and the things that his character is going through, in terms of when Cedric dies and when Sirius dies, and you compare that with Dumbledore, obviously he elevates his game for the last two. So maybe this is a bit of a dip, but you have to be really looking for it.

[5:38] J.J.: I guess. And I wouldn't have had that critical eye either, if he hadn't said anything. I never felt like anything was out of place, or not enough.

[5:47] Olaf: No, I agree. Emma Watson considered not returning for this movie, because she often felt lonely on set, because she was just with the boys.

[5:54] J.J.: Which is interesting, because at the beginning of the movie, when they're all together, there's a line that she says. She's like, I almost didn't come back either.

[6:02] Olaf: As Hermione.

[6:03] J.J.: Which was kind of cool, because you're like, yeah, I wonder if they're like, let's just throw that in. She did come back, obviously. She couldn't bear the idea of somebody else being Hermione.

[6:13] Olaf: That would have been tough.

[6:14] J.J.: It would have been tough. I mean, we've gone through five movies, we're almost at the end, and then just suddenly...

[6:20] Olaf: Have a cast change.

[6:21] J.J.: Yeah, and not because something happened to the previous performer, they just chose not to come back. It would have been very hard to take.

[6:29] Olaf: I agree. This is the most expensive Harry Potter film, the most expensive film of 2009, and the third most expensive film ever made up to that point, after Pirates of the Caribbean at World's End, which was $300 million, and Spider-Man 3, which was $258 million. This was $250 million.

[6:46] J.J.: And probably did better than either one of those two movies at the end of the day.

[6:53] Olaf: Yeah. And this is also the fourth and final Harry Potter movie to be rated PG.

[6:58] J.J.: Yeah, I was under the impression that once they went PG-13, they stayed there, but clearly not the case, because I think Goblet of Fire was PG-13, but then they went back to PG for Order of the Phoenix. And then watching the movie, I'm thinking, oh, I guess this was a pretty good PG movie.

[7:14] Olaf: There really wasn't anything that would have leaned it.

[7:17] J.J.: Yeah, which is still, though, it's such a dark, heavy movie.

[7:22] Olaf: Well, I would say there's half of the movie that's heavy, but I will say, from a dark standpoint, the color palette that they chose to use absolutely gives you that feeling.

[7:34] J.J.: I believe this was the only movie that got nominated for cinematography.

[7:38] Olaf: Yes, I believe that is also correct.

[7:41] J.J.: Which, okay, I mean, it's wonderfully shot, especially towards the back half of the movie, when they start really doing things that are going to move the plot into the next two movies.

[7:52] Olaf: And when this movie opens up, it's pretty exciting. We have Death Eaters in the real world, messing stuff up, muggles are seeing crazy stuff, and then they go into Hogsmeade and blow up the wand shop and kidnap the wand maker.

[8:07] J.J.: And then Harry is hiding out at an underground cafe, which, it seems like he must have been there quite a lot. And here's another example, which is so funny, because this whole movie is, oh, we have to focus on this now. He's flirting with this waitress at this cafe. No thought of Ginny.

[8:28] Olaf: Oh, not yet. Right, we're going to spend the rest of the movie awkwardly shoehorning that in. And I've made notes. Sure, this opening scene at this cafe and this train station isn't even in the book. But the idea is that he likes trains. So, yeah, he's been there for whatever reason all summer, just hanging out down there. And so, yes, I agree. They just sort of created this moment to get Dumbledore to Harry.

[8:54] J.J.: Which they still could have done.

[8:56] Olaf: They could have. I don't have a problem with him flirting with the waitress. What I have a problem with is this relationship with him and Ginny that comes out of nowhere and is unwarranted.

[9:06] J.J.: I agree. I do like the cafe idea because it does set up this picture of he is now getting older.

[9:14] Olaf: Yeah.

[9:15] J.J.: He is sort of exploring that, those feelings of flirtatious feelings, you know, flirting with somebody. So I do like that they set it up that way. But, yes, I'll go with you on this idea of, like, we got to really push this other person.

[9:30] Olaf: Well, speaking of that, we go right into him ending up at the Weasleys. And until he shares probably the most awkward hug ever put on screen, when he arrives at the Weasley house, there's just been really no sense of there's something between them.

[9:48] J.J.: And as it is, she's dating somebody else.

[9:50] Olaf: Yeah.

[9:51] J.J.: Right?

[9:52] Olaf: Yeah.

[9:53] J.J.: So I just have so many problems with the two of them together. I don't – I'm sorry, everybody. Maybe it's better from the book perspective. Maybe it's been built up more. And it feels more earned. But I'll tell you, in the movies, it doesn't feel right or natural or earned in any way. He's better off with Cho or Hermione or the waitress at the cafe.

[10:18] Olaf: Or the waitress.

[10:19] J.J.: Wow. So you're telling me that the small moment that he has with the waitress is stronger than anything they tried to put together after that with Ginny?

[10:29] Olaf: Yeah, because he's showing interest in her.

[10:31] J.J.: That's fair. I mean, he is sort of – there is no active interest on his part with Ginny.

[10:38] Olaf: Yeah.

[10:39] J.J.: It's just weird. Anyhoo, we get to see Mrs. Malfoy. She goes to Snape's abode. Is this his apartment, home, outside of the school?

[10:48] Olaf: I'm not sure where they are exactly. But what I will say is that one of the reasons why I love this movie is, even though we still could have used so much more of Alan Rickman as Snape in this movie, the fact that we get what we get is so satisfying.

[11:03] J.J.: He is just so great, period. He gets to do – even this scene right here with Malfoy and Bellatrix and the mom where he's just having to make this – what do they call it? The unbreakable vow?

[11:15] Olaf: Yeah, an unbreakable vow, yeah.

[11:17] J.J.: It's a master class on doing a lot without having to do a lot.

[11:20] Olaf: Well, I would say that's him in a nutshell.

[11:23] J.J.: It's him in a nutshell, but the fact that he's got to do it and still make it so nuanced through the course of – not only through the course of now six movies, but there's some movies where he's in it for five seconds. But what an impact.

[11:36] Olaf: But the fact that we get to see him more here was just so satisfying. He's been assigned to protect Draco.

[11:42] J.J.: He takes an unbreakable vow. Draco's been chosen by Voldemort to kill Dumbledore and set up a whole way into the school. Steve Kloves does such a great job through seven of these movies because he didn't do one of them, to adapt the books. And these books are so huge. He does a really good job of sort of parsing out what's important. It still leaves holes that you just kind of have to push through, but what a task to have to try and then go, okay, we've got to put this onto the screen and still make it make sense and do it in a very efficient way so this movie isn't five hours long.

[12:17] Olaf: We get to see the twins after they essentially expelled themselves from Hogwarts.

[12:24] J.J.: In a classic way, yeah, which you think about it, wouldn't they have been brought back because Umbridge was so terrible and she's gone now? Well, they've been like, you guys actually did us a favor, come on back. But they go into business, and we get to see that business, and it looks like one of the most successful stores ever.

[12:40] Olaf: Oh yeah, well, which is interesting because even Hermione says, "I can't believe they're doing well," because the rest of Diagon Alley is basically a ghost town. And so I started thinking, I'm like, well, did they not get hit on purpose because the Death Eaters know that this is where all the kids are going to go? This is where Harry's going to go, so we're still going to leave. This is not a threat; like this store is not the wand shop, and it's not like other things that can be used against us. Yeah, we're gonna—this is basically gluttony, and we're just gonna let these kids have their fun at this store.

[13:09] J.J.: Well, I mean, I think at least for now, it's just not a part of the plan. You know, their plan was we need to get Olivander; we're gonna— we'll take him. And I mean, it does seem like a good place to go because—

[13:25] Olaf: Oh sure, absolutely. What bugs me is throughout this whole movie, they keep showing the smallest scenes, these little clips that just feel forced into it. It's like we could have cut the scene shorter, but we decided to go a little long on Harry and Ginny's growing affection for each other. It's very ham-fisted; I don't like it.

[13:45] J.J.: This movie has been described as like part romantic comedy, part terrorizing adventure that we get because we're not only getting the Ginny-Harry dynamic, but then we're also getting Hermione and Ron, and then this other—and each of these characters have this sort of third person. Like Ginny has Dean, and Hermione has the dude from the Quidditch team who is interested in her, but she's not interested in him.

[14:11] Olaf: No, she hates him.

[14:12] J.J.: And then Ron and Lavender. So there is this sort of triangle dynamics that they're—my point is they do a really great job in this movie spending time on it without making it feel like such a burden, which is how I felt with Goblet of Fire.

[14:29] Olaf: Well, I will agree with you as far as the Ron and Hermione stuff, but the Potter and Ginny stuff—no.

[14:37] J.J.: Well, and then they do—they do not do a good job of conveying—

[14:45] Olaf: No, because they've been sprinkling the Ron and Hermione over the last three—it's earned.

[14:50] J.J.: It's more natural up to this point. I'm still like, Hermione, what are you doing? Like, yeah, no, Ron is a nice guy, but no, he still hasn't done anything that would warrant you liking him. They're not showing us that he's done anything that would make you want to like him. But if they were to get together, I'd be like, okay, well, I guess. I mean, it was more earned than—

[15:15] Olaf: I can't believe we're spending this much time talking—

[15:20] J.J.: It's just you really have a problem.

[15:21] Olaf: It bugs me. It bugs you. And this is basically half the movie.

[15:25] J.J.: Well, it wouldn't have bothered me if this was something that had been going on for a while. It really felt rushed, and it felt like we're gonna have to wrap this whole franchise up in the next two movies. And according to the books, these two are together, so we should probably make that—

[15:37] Olaf: Well, and at this point, they already knew how it was going to end because the books had come out, right? So now they're like, okay, we have a finish line; we have somewhere we can go. But yeah, it—head that way. It just is, from a story perspective, it wasn't earned.

[15:51] J.J.: It doesn't feel natural.

[15:52] Olaf: No, and it's interesting. There's a lot of reasons why I shouldn't like this movie, and we're actually talking a lot about them right now—the holes, the absence of characters, the forced love stories. I did like them getting the Half-Blood Prince book; I did like that. But I wanted more. Like, they don't spend a lot of time—they don't show—they show it says Half-Blood Prince; they show that. They show that it's heavily edited with things that help him succeed in the classroom, right?

[16:18] J.J.: What I thought was crazy was this whole movie—the entire movie is based on him getting this book, and he by accident—he got it by accident. He gets it because Ron got the other book instead, and Harry was sort of stuck with it by default. This is wild.

[16:38] Olaf: It's just one of those huge coincidence things in movies that—

[16:44] J.J.: Well, yeah, it's so weird. I like this movie a lot, but there to me seem like there are a lot of problems with it, and it could have been executed better. Maybe this is why it was at 78.

[16:58] Olaf: Maybe you're right as we talk through it.

[17:03] J.J.: Well, I thought it was wild that after everything that had just happened in the previous movie, they kind of just let go of the fact that Harry's connected to Voldemort. It's really not mentioned or discussed at all in this one. You get a quick little view of Harry being affected by the connection.

[17:17] Olaf: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then that's it. That's all you get. The focus of the book is really about Tom Riddle and Dumbledore and Slughorn and all of that past. Like, there are the memory sections of the movie where Harry dives into the memories, which I thought they did a really cool job with. But in the book, there's like six or seven memories that all tie to Tom Riddle and how he becomes who he becomes and all this other stuff. And David Yates, the director, felt he just wanted to pull specific ones to show that were more intricate to the plot. And so I agree with you that Voldemort's not even in this movie. Yeah, he's back, but like we're not really concerned about that at the moment.

[18:10] J.J.: Speaking of the flashbacks, when we see Dumbledore meet Tom Riddle for the first time and he's a little kid in this orphanage—

[18:16] Olaf: Orphanage, yeah, that's what I thought it was.

[18:22] J.J.: Does Dumbledore adopt him?

[18:23] Olaf: I don't think so. I think it—I don't think they just let you take a kid out to send them to school.

[18:27] J.J.: Well, like what they just—what they did with Harry. But Harry wasn't an orphan; Harry had relatives that he was living with. Granted, I think not great circumstances, but it might be one of those things where I'm not going to adopt him, but I'm going to look at—he's got an opportunity to go to the school; he will be under the watchful eye of—

[18:42] Olaf: So does he go back to the orphanage during the summer?

[18:49] J.J.: I don't know. It just seemed like he was taking him away from there, and I was like, but I don't—there was no paperwork.

[18:55] Olaf: Here's an interesting thing because we always talk about how you don't like where they make movies and they answer questions we didn't need answered—prequels. I—I don't like prequels.

[19:05] J.J.: Right.

[19:06] Olaf: However, from a movie perspective, everybody, when we're talking about Voldemort, I would have liked more of, yeah, why he is the way he is—not that he's just like a sociopath, as they do it in this movie. It's not a prequel; it's just solving the mystery, but they don't do it, and they don't give us enough. Like the last memory we see where he's talking with Slughorn, and we finally get to see—we figure out what Horcrux—we learn about Horcrux, yeah, right? He's clearly gone to the library; he's in this frame of mind of asking this very deep way of how do I do this.

[19:41] J.J.: Well, I think we don't know why, yeah, but I think the movies have framed Tom Riddle even earlier in the franchise as just inherently bad, like the Joker.

[19:58] Olaf: I get—well, depending on which timeline you're going off of, but—

[20:00] J.J.: Fair enough.

[20:01] Olaf: Like when we meet the young Tom Riddle in the orphanage, he is already kind of like—

[20:03] J.J.: Oh, you think he's there already?

[20:09] Olaf: Well, I'm not saying he's completely evil, but—

[20:10] J.J.: No, no, no. He's already like thinking—he just has like dark thoughts, and he's already leaning in that direction.

[20:15] Olaf: Yeah, and again, I don't need a whole lot. I'm not asking for a whole prequel movie, which clearly they tried doing, and that's what they were attempting to do. But I would have liked a little bit more. I would have been okay with another memory or two.

[20:32] J.J.: Sure, because it would inform us maybe a little bit more.

[20:37] Olaf: Yeah, I mean, I think we got enough information to—not just from this movie, but like I said from previous films establishing Tom Riddle as a person that we had enough information to go on to accept what was happening, right? So I probably would have benefited from a little bit more info, but yeah, I had enough.

[20:56] J.J.: I do want to take a sidestep here. One of the reasons why I really enjoy this movie is the pacing of it because it does move at a pretty nice clip. It's like you like—you said it was a little over two and a half hours. It doesn't really drag, and I think a lot of that has to do with the performances and the curiosity I get with, oh, Snape is now—Snape is over here. What's his involvement with Draco and Bellatrix? And that's interesting. What is Slughorn's role? Is he bad? Because I know he was a Slytherin guy; is he going to end up being bad? So there were certain things that were keeping my interest throughout the whole course of the movie, which makes it more enjoyable as we get to the end.

[21:37] Olaf: Sure, yes. I just—I felt like I had to say that because for the last 30 minutes, I've really just been like pulling out all the negatives while I also say how much I like—

[21:47] J.J.: Well, here's a positive. I really enjoy Draco in this movie.

[21:54] Olaf: Well, he finally got something to do.

[21:55] J.J.: Well, he has something to do, and he has way more depth to it, and he's not just a cartoonish bully anymore. He's got the weight of the world and everything that he now has to do, and I just really like the grounded gravity to him that we hadn't seen really until now. It was always just kind of this almost Biff Tannen, maybe a little more than Biff Tannen, bully snarkiness to it.

[22:18] Olaf: Yeah, I agree. There was—you're right, there was some stillness to a lot of the things he was doing, especially when he would go to the Room of Requirement and go into the—what was it? What? The cabinet? The moments where he was doing that, where you're still trying to figure out why he's there and what he's doing, you trust that they're going to resolve that, and they do. But yeah, there were moments in there where it was just really nice to see him actually get to do something, and he was doing it well.

[22:42] J.J.: Now we get to see the Quidditch team because Ron is trying to decide to try out.

[22:49] Olaf: Yeah, when did Ginny get on the team, and why does she already seem like she's like the assistant captain?

[22:55] J.J.: I can't argue this. I am laughing because I don't know. She's just there and like basically running everything.

[23:03] Olaf: They're taking charge; they're gonna be a couple. And then why—why is Ron on his broomstick like he's never been on a broom in his life?

[23:15] J.J.: Because he's the funny guy. Look, Rupert Grint does a fantastic job with whatever he's being asked.

[23:22] Olaf: Yeah, no, it's nothing against his performance.

[23:27] J.J.: No, no, I'm saying this because I don't like Ron's character, but I'm just—so I'm over here, I'm looking at Ron as a character in this movie that I am watching, and I'm wondering, have you never ridden a broom in your life? Because he's like barely holding on to this thing. So it just—it was very strange to me. I understand it's for comedic effect, but it didn't make a lot of sense story-wise because I'm like, you were in the first movie; you took the flying broomstick lessons. You're better than other people. It just—it was very strange to me.

[24:06] Olaf: And then Ginny is now everywhere. She is—she's like in every scene now with the group.

[24:12] J.J.: Yeah, she's part of the team, sort of. But yeah, I wrote like she's a part of the trio, but dot, dot, dot, dot not.

[24:20] Olaf: Yeah, she's on the bench; she's dating another student. I don't know. And then Ginny gets invited to this special dinner by—well, by Slughorn. So this is the potions class, and the idea is that Slughorn is going to gravitate towards the people that are smart and have potential, and we know that Ginny is smart. They've somewhat established that, or they're trying to figure out ways to let us know she's smart and she's capable, and they sort of—

[24:47] J.J.: Let us know that in Phoenix. So yeah, she's invited, but she just shows up out of nowhere.

[24:53] Olaf: And it's like, she shows up late. Yeah. She's been crying because I got to get rid of this other guy. And this is how they do it. It's like, we're going to solve this in one line. She's been crying again, because she's been fighting with Dean. I guess. Here you go, Harry. And then I wrote, Ron falls for the old fake liquid luck trick.

[25:16] J.J.: Yeah, well, again, Ron's not the brightest. Stands to reason why Hermione is remotely interested. I'm not because not that he not that she has to be with somebody that's her equal, but I mean, come on, man, like compliment each other. There's a there's a an overcorrection there. I did. I did think it was nice to have Quidditch back. It was nice because it was completely absent in the last one. A performance that I really enjoyed was Leander's. Is that her name? Leander, right? I thought it was Lavender. Or is it Lavender? I don't know.

[25:47] Olaf: I saw it as Lavender.

[25:48] J.J.: No, it's not Lavender. I think it's Lavender. I thought it was Lavender Brown.

[25:53] Olaf: No, it's Lavender.

[25:54] J.J.: Okay. But okay. We're keeping this in. I thought she did a fantastic job. Yeah, but I wrote that her obsession comes out of nowhere.

[26:04] Olaf: Well, here's the thing. Her character is in the other movies cast oddly enough as not a white girl. I'm just saying is based on these movies. She comes out of nowhere. Her obsession comes out of nowhere.

[26:17] J.J.: Yes, it does. But then, like you say, so does Ginny's sort of does too. But hers is sort of like sprinkled in sort of drama. I wrote the thing. I wrote the thing. I don't have a problem with her obsession coming out of nowhere because it that happens. Yeah, I get it. I don't need it. We don't need that over Harry and Ginny. I don't have a problem with the obsession, the forwardness that she has with Ron, I think. And then her total commitment to playing that she kind of plays it a little one-notey, but it doesn't seem to matter because she does such a great job overall that the fact that she's obsessed with him, it never hit my radar. It doesn't bother me. I just wrote in my notes. I was like, kind of comes out of nowhere. That happens, you know, like I also wrote down Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Matchmaker. That's what this movie should be called.

[27:14] Olaf: What's interesting, and maybe it's because I'm constantly comparing these elements to Goblet of Fire, is that they do a better job bouncing back and forth between those moments and the actual serious nature of the story. Yeah, it's just sometimes we're not spending 40 minutes at the Winter Ball. Yeah, but sometimes they go back to one of these romantic moments and it just it's so jarring and so uncomfortable. Jenny feeding Harry a cookie, like, just hand him the cookie. He can eat it. But no, she has to put it in his mouth. And she ties his shoe. I think she ties his shoe for him. Yeah. And then she shows up in a robe asking if Ron has gone to sleep and they're about to kiss when the Death Eaters attack. And it's just like, this whole scene is not even in the book.

[28:04] J.J.: Right. But it's good. It's great. I thought it was great. I was like, thank goodness they showed up to get us away from this scene, that is. So then let me ask you this. How is your how what how do you feel about when she actually does kiss him in the requirement room?

[28:21] Olaf: Awful. And where is she hiding? She's hiding something. She's hiding. She's hiding the Half-Blood Prince book.

[28:26] J.J.: Oh, the book. Where is she hiding it? In the room of requirement.

[28:31] Olaf: I know. But do we like. Okay. So I have this in my notes. Jenny, Harry, room of requirement scene. Also so eloquent. She says they need to hide it so no one will find it. And I'm like, but she's going to know where she is. She's going to know where it is. And I'm like, just destroy it then. It's a book.

[28:55] J.J.: It's not. They can't. Maybe it's got a spell on it. I don't think that's the case. It's but considering whose book it actually is. And then she kisses him with his eyes closed and then vanishes. He opens his eyes. She is gone. Witchcraft. It's like witchcraft.

[29:14] Olaf: Okay. All right. No, I know. I hear I'm in full agreement with you about this relationship and how it's forced and not earned because I was never offended. And there's no chemistry.

[29:27] J.J.: No. And that's the one of the problems. But two, they do have more of an opportunity in the books to flush this out. But we're not talking about the books. They shoehorn it in the film. So it makes it very rude. We're not. Are we rooting for them? No, we're not. I'm not shipping them. I'm like, what is happening? Let's get back to the movie, which at this point, we're like, there's only 40 minutes left. Yeah, we got to get we got things going here. We get to see Aragog again, but he's dead.

[30:02] Olaf: Yeah, I know. And to me, this scene seems a little out of nowhere because Harry's taken the luck. He's taken the liquid luck. So he's feeling like. Yeah. And this is kind of fun because he gets to play these scenes.

[30:12] J.J.: Yeah, I thought all of this was great. He just he just goes with his gut and ends up in all the places he needs to be. Right. Because he's trying to extract information from Slughorn. He needs to know what that conversation was. But it's interesting how, yeah, he's just going to go with his instincts, go see Hagrid. And by doing so, he runs into Slughorn, who wouldn't have normally been there. Normally, he's doing something else. And then we get the Aragog death scene. We get them drinking at Hagrid's and Hagrid, apparently a lightweight. And then I will say he's just as drunk as Slughorn. And it was like five times the size.

[30:49] Olaf: Yeah. But that scene when Slughorn and Harry talk and they talk about his mother and everything, I was like, that's that was great scene. Another Academy Award winner here in Jim Broadbent. It brings so much to this role that feels like it could have been a throwaway just on paper. He doesn't look like he's described in the book, but he also you like him. But there was there were times even when Harry runs into him by accident and he's like, yeah, I'm like, is he doing something not good? Like, well, still a part of me that was like, yeah, because he's not trusted. He's not Lupin, who's invested and cares about the students. But he's also not Kenneth Branagh.

[31:33] J.J.: Right. He's not that either. No, he he prides being a good teacher and and working with kids. But he is egotistical and he's interested in collecting the best students and stuff. And right. And all of that stuff. Yeah, I think they could have leaned into that a little bit more. I mean, I think the Christmas party was supposed to be that. But to me, it's just it's just a Christmas party. And you get Ron every once in a while, like, oh, I guess he's going to go to the party because he's a slug, like using slug and that sort of derogatory way of you're an elitist. They could have leaned in a little bit more, again, not intricate, intricate to the plot. But if you're going to spend a lot of time shoehorning Ginny and Harry, they could have at least given us a little bit more of of slug of slug.

[32:16] Olaf: Yeah, I would have taken more of that than more of them. But yeah, Slughorn is a slughorn I keep calling him Slughorn like it's Willy Wonka. Sorry, everybody. I'm sorry, Slughorn. I've got Willy Wonka on the right now. Sorry.

[32:35] J.J.: And that brings us to our first onscreen mention of a horcrux. Yeah, because at the at this point, we don't really know what's going on. Yeah. And we see the we see the we see the diary again, because. Yeah. And we learn that a horcrux is an object that you put your soul into that has been split and to split your soul, you have to commit murder. And in that memory, we learn that Tom Riddle wants to do it seven times. And but then we don't. That's it. We don't see it.

[33:06] Olaf: Yeah. No, but we don't know why either. Like, why does he want to do this?

[33:11] J.J.: Well, I think it's because he wants to live forever, which is something that he learned about and what he and Slughorn I almost said Slugworth. Sorry, you put it in my head. I know. Sorry. I'm thinking never ending gobstoppers now. I think in their conversation, he's like, oh, I want to live forever. So yeah. And yeah, you're right. We get to we discover what those are. And then we also discover that the diary was, in fact, a diary and a ring. Tom Riddle's mom's ring, I believe is what it was. And then we go to we get to go on one of these horcrux hunting adventures with Dumbledore. He and Harry go to this cave. This whole scene is incredible.

[33:50] Olaf: No, this is what I was saying. This is the 40 minute mark where I'm going, OK, well, we got to get this train moving because we don't have much time here. What we find out is that Dumbledore has been traveling, trying to find these things, and it's taking a toll even here on his own. He has hands all deformed and he's very weak. Yeah. And so he's needing Harry to help, at least in some way. Yeah. So they go to this location that they know there's a horcrux. It's in this cave and it's on this little rock island in the middle of a giant lake.

[34:29] J.J.: I have a question. So they transport there. Yeah. They don't transport inside the cave. They transport to a cliff in the middle of the ocean just so they can see the cave and then get to the cave. Well, we don't see them get to the cave. So maybe they.

[34:43] Olaf: Right. They had to. They're not swimming to the cave. I'm pretty sure they transported from the cliff to the cave or from the rock to the cave. Yeah. Why didn't they just transport to the. Now, mind you, the shot is cool of them on this mini rock, big, huge rock in the middle of the ocean. It just seemed like. So are you asking why didn't they from the cave to.

[35:03] J.J.: From the tower at Hogwarts. Oh, straight to the cave. I think because right before they left, a crew member leaned over to Dumbledore and said, we need an establishing shot. There's a really fake rock in the middle of this huge ocean. We're going to need you to land there. Yeah. That's my best guess. I mean, like I said, it's a cool shot. Yeah. It just seemed like, wait a minute. What are you guys doing there? But then you can ask. Well, once they get into the cave, why didn't they transport from the shore to the little island where the Horcrux was? My only guess is that there was some kind of hex that.

[35:43] Olaf: Yeah. Barrier that from happening, even though maybe they clearly use magic in that space. Right. So maybe they don't want to go from the tower at Hogwarts to the cave because they don't know what they're going to get. So, OK, fine, I guess. But we get to the Horcrux and Dumbledore has to drink this liquid. Yeah, right. And he he already knows what's going to happen. And he just tells Harry, no matter what happens, don't let me stop drinking this. I will beg. I will plead. I will. Yeah. Do not stop. And Michael Gambon just is delivering in the scene. It is such a powerful scene.

[36:23] J.J.: And from here to the to. Oh, yeah. And he's he's on it. I can't remember if it was when we talked about Goblet of Fire in Phoenix or if it was with Azkaban, it might have been Goblet of Fire. I was trying to picture Richard Harris. Now, there are times when I was like, oh, this would have been interesting with Harris because now my Dumbledore's character is a little weaker and a little more frail because of the things he's experiencing. And I'm like, well, like Richard Harris in this scene would have been interesting because it would have just been him playing it the way he would is. Yeah. I don't know if it would have been as powerful because he already see the crime.

[37:12] J.J. Gonzalez: Like was owning that when he was like struggling and suffering. No, he really—see, yeah, I think I'm thinking more about at the scene right after, oh, and when they get back to the school. Yeah, when they get back to the school, it's like, hmm. This would have been interesting to see Harris. I don't—I still don't think it would have been as powerful maybe because of his voice. Maybe Richard Harris was great as Dumbledore in the first two movies. Yeah, it's almost like that was what we needed. Yeah, but go after that, we needed more of a Michael Gambon and also, and not just the energy he brought but also his appearance and his costume, right? Because authoritative, it gives them more of an authoritative—yeah, because in the giant big robes and hat that Richard Harris had, it just wouldn't have had as big of an impact.

[38:03] Olaf: Yeah, as the—well, I wonder, would they have changed it as the story—in the books changed? Would they have changed Dumbledore's wardrobe even if it had been Richard Harris? No, it's hard to say.

[38:16] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, I think they probably would have made some—they would have taken him out of the hat.

[38:20] Olaf: Yeah, probably. I mean, they took McGonagall out of her hat.

[38:25] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, that was what a one-and-done. No, she would wear—but she didn't have—like in this movie, she went sans hat.

[38:33] Olaf: Yeah, so let's talk about it. They get back to the school, having read the book, of course, for me, but even then, even now on a rewatch, every time you see Snape, the conversation that Snape has with Dumbledore before Harry and Dumbledore go off on their horcrux adventure.

[38:47] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah.

[38:48] Olaf: Snape delivers one line and he's like, "Have you ever, you know, given one thought about what it is that you're asking me to do?" What he says something that can be—he's asking maybe, "What if I don't want to do this anymore?"

[39:06] J.J. Gonzalez: Right, but we don't know what that means.

[39:10] Olaf: Yeah, and we won't know till later. So we get to this final scene or the scene where they're back at the tower and Draco shows up and he disarms Dumbledore. Well, he's already let—we find out he's letting the Death Eaters. He's letting the Death Eaters. He's letting Bellatrix.

[39:24] J.J. Gonzalez: He's disarmed Dumbledore, but which is a very important tidbit going into the next couple movies because according to the books, when you disarm another wizard, their wand now belongs to you. It answers to you, right? So you have to take it. Well, you have to disarm them.

[39:42] Olaf: So you also have to have possession of the wand based on all the discussions after the next two movies came out. We thought we find out later that Dumbledore has the elder wand and because Draco has disarmed Dumbledore, the elder wand now responds to Draco, granted he doesn't know that at the time.

[40:02] J.J. Gonzalez: Well, and they—in the script, they had had Draco take the wand, but then Rowling was like, "But I've already written in the book that because of everything you just said, Dumbledore needs to have the wand with him because—"

[40:16] Olaf: Right, right, right. What happens in a movie?

[40:17] J.J. Gonzalez: So they had to rewrite the script to have you go not take the wand though. The wand still responds to Draco, even though he didn't take it and he's not using it, but it belongs—that which is why when Voldemort gets it, it's not working the way he wants it to because he is now—if he had handed it to Draco, it would have done—and then he would have killed Draco and blah, blah, blah, blah.

[40:42] Olaf: This final scene is—it's tough. So much was so little. Like you get Snape comes in, Harry's hiding, Harry can see Dumbledore and, you know, yeah, and Snape, you know, you're like, okay, because even Dumbledore's like, "Go get Severus. Go get Snape. He's the one I need. Go get him." Snape shows up and you're thinking, okay, um, he's here to help Harry. He hasn't helped him this whole time.

[41:06] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh, well, he has, but he hasn't really been on Harry's side this whole time.

[41:11] Olaf: And then he shows up, but we already know that he's made this unbreakable vow. What is he going to do? And didn't Gambon delivering the line he delivers, "Please."

[41:19] J.J. Gonzalez: Which—and I had my—in my notes to ask you this question, having not read the books, when you saw this, what was your thought? You just saw Snape kill Dumbledore and you, having not read the books, are seeing it like Harry's seeing it now.

[41:34] Olaf: Well, I haven't read the books, but I'm not living under a rock. I knew that Dumbledore dies because when the book came out, everyone's talking about Dumbledore dies. But it's Snape. When I'm watching it, it was devastating because I don't—I don't know that Snape has been protecting Harry all this time. I don't know any of that.

[41:53] J.J. Gonzalez: Right.

[41:55] Olaf: And just being on the journey that I've been on with Snape and Harry and their relationship and Snape's relationship with Dumbledore and everything, you know, that was really hard to take. And yeah, when Dumbledore says, "Please," the first time I watched it, I didn't realize that he's asking Snape to kill him.

[42:15] J.J. Gonzalez: To kill him, right?

[42:17] Olaf: He thinks he's begging for his—begging for his life, so to speak, or pleading like, "Don't do it." I don't even know if he was pleading. I didn't know. I don't know if I thought he was pleading. It just—I didn't register what it meant, which was absolutely, "Please kill me," because he knows—he knew this was going to happen. He knew that Draco was meant to kill him.

[42:37] J.J. Gonzalez: I knew that he was having Snape do it for him, which goes back to the conversation that they had right before Harry and Dumbledore go off.

[42:45] Olaf: Yeah.

[42:46] J.J. Gonzalez: And that's basically to do what? Yeah, you're going to kill me. He knew that by doing the sacrifice, it was going to help everybody. So Harry chases them down, like Bellatrix is destroying the school.

[42:57] Olaf: Yeah, the common area.

[43:01] J.J. Gonzalez: Snape is marching through the forest with everybody else. Yeah, Harry's behind him. They have their little face-to-face tête-à-tête. He tried to use his own spell against him.

[43:12] Olaf: Yeah, and then Snape says, "I'm the Half-Blood Prince." Did you feel like it was a—they kind of threw it away?

[43:19] J.J. Gonzalez: Um, I mean, the title of the movie being Half-Blood Prince, we didn't really get a lot of Half-Blood Prince, right? Because they do—they do obviously expound more of it on the book.

[43:31] Olaf: Why he is that, like why he is, yeah.

[43:35] J.J. Gonzalez: But it was such a great way to end the movie as well.

[43:40] Olaf: Mm-hmm, because it's like cliffhanger.

[43:46] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh, yeah, like I was definitely like ready for the next installment because of everything. I thought it was strange when we go back to Dumbledore being dead on the ground. Everyone's just standing there watching. None of the teachers are doing anything. They're not trying to control the situation. They're not trying to hide or shield the children. It's just everyone's just—well, standing around.

[44:08] Olaf: In the book, it's like a whole funeral thing. Like they do this whole thing, which they didn't do in the movie. To me, the school has already been destroyed.

[44:15] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah.

[44:17] Olaf: So they've got that Dumbledore's on the ground. I think everybody's just shocked.

[44:20] J.J. Gonzalez: I didn't—in shock.

[44:23] Olaf: Yeah, it just struck me when I thought about the real world. Oh, well, what are you doing that for, people?

[44:28] J.J. Gonzalez: I know, but people would be trying to take control of the situation, keep it clear, right? Get the kids out of this case.

[44:33] Olaf: I think the Death Eaters are gone.

[44:38] J.J. Gonzalez: I know, I'm right. It's gone. It was a thought I had when I saw it, and I was like, nope, nope, no one's taking charge of this. And then I have to—and then they just all raise their wands up in the air.

[44:48] Olaf: I mean, it was very emotional. It's a very powerful moment. I thoroughly enjoy this movie.

[44:53] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh, it's great from beginning to end. A lot of it because it definitely—we know it's propelling us to the final book, the final chapter.

[45:02] Olaf: Yeah, which subsequently is two movies, which was nice of them to do, and we didn't have to wait long. It was like the next year, so it was very satisfying as a viewer.

[45:13] J.J. Gonzalez: I will say I was like, man, if I had the time—which we kind of talked about at the beginning of the whole episode—if I had the time, it would be nice to revisit the books.

[45:22] Olaf: Yeah, I don't know. I've tried to read the books, and I've gotten—I’ve definitely read the first two, and I just couldn't—I don't even know if I finished the second one. I don't know. I just couldn't get it.

[45:29] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, and they do—I mean, they get sizably bigger, but like it—even if you were to skim through Azkaban and Goblet, it made me want to go, man, it'd be—if I could find the time to read these, I would read them again.

[45:44] Olaf: Well, back to the movie, before the credits roll, we find out that the horcrux that Dumbledore and Harry went and got out of the cave was fake. It already—there's a lot—it already been taken by RAB. Now Harry and Ginny are a thing officially, and they've been given their blessing by Ron. Thanks, Ron.

[46:04] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, thanks, Ron.

[46:06] Olaf: It was kind of bittersweet when you realize this is the last school year for Harry, Ron, and Hermione. They're not going to continue as students from here on out.

[46:13] J.J. Gonzalez: Well, then you have to think, is anybody going to be able to continue?

[46:17] Olaf: Well, they do.

[46:21] J.J. Gonzalez: Well, I know, I'm just—it's like, but at this point, you're thinking, are they going to be able to continue? The school just got, like, mutilated.

[46:27] Olaf: Well, they did have a bunch of glass broken. Hagrid's home was exploded.

[46:37] J.J. Gonzalez: The main hall, all the glass is gone and the candles broken, right?

[46:42] Olaf: They lost it. It was really about it. They could make two professors, two more—three, two professors and a headmaster gone.

[46:49] J.J. Gonzalez: They still have staffing, and they have ways to repair glass.

[46:53] Olaf: So there's a thing in the book that they mention why the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher only lasts a year. The position is cursed because Tom Riddle curses the position because he wanted that position, and Dumbledore didn't let him have it.

[47:06] J.J. Gonzalez: Oh, yeah, I heard this.

[47:10] Olaf: So that's why nobody lasts more than a year.

[47:10] J.J. Gonzalez: Well, Lupin could have. He just chose not to.

[47:16] Olaf: Sure, he could have. Slughorn could too.

[47:21] J.J. Gonzalez: Well, Slughorn wasn't a Dark Arts teacher.

[47:27] Olaf: Oh, no, it was Snape. That's right. Snape could have if he hadn't done the whole murder thing.

[47:32] J.J. Gonzalez: Except he took the Dark Arts and put practical use to it.

[47:35] Olaf: Yeah, and then the last note I had on this movie as the credits were rolling, the music's amazing.

[47:39] J.J. Gonzalez: The music's amazing.

[47:40] Olaf: We finally get some fun credits again, the memory stuff. It was an enjoyable watch.

[47:46] J.J. Gonzalez: There's a part of me that maybe after our conversation and feel why the audience score was where it was. I would still put it at 80%.

[47:53] Olaf: But yeah, yeah, I didn't like the Ginny-Harry romance.

[48:01] J.J. Gonzalez: No, it's—I'll agree that it's definitely something that they really were wanting to have happen because it happens in the books.

[48:06] Olaf: Yeah, they're just prisoner of trying to put as much as they can, but even Dumbledore thought he liked Hermione.

[48:13] J.J. Gonzalez: Hermione, yeah, and he has to like clear that up that right here is like, "No, we're just friends." And then we go into the next movies, and there's barely any time for him and Ginny.

[48:20] Olaf: It's mostly just the him and Hermione and Ron show after, yeah, in the next two.

[48:25] J.J. Gonzalez: So it's just—it's just so unearned.

[48:28] Olaf: Anyway.

[48:30] J.J. Gonzalez: Anyway, that brings us to the end of our coverage of the Half-Blood Prince. We've really enjoyed doing the Harry Potter franchise, and we've got two more left—one more episode to go.

[48:40] Olaf: I look forward to rewatching those. It's been a while.

[48:42] J.J. Gonzalez: Yeah, it's going to be fun to close that out and rewatch those as well because, yeah, it's been a while since I've watched the seven and eight.

[48:49] Olaf: Well, we hope you've enjoyed it, and we hope to see you back at the next episode. And until then, to be continued.

[48:59] J.J. Gonzalez: Back to the Movie Theater is hosted by J.J. Gonzalez and Olaf.

[49:03] Olaf: That's it.

[49:04] J.J. Gonzalez: Produced by me, Johnny Clay, J.J. Gonzalez, and Olaf.

[49:07] Olaf: That's it.

[49:08] J.J. Gonzalez: Theme song and incidental music by The Dimes.

[49:11] Olaf: Visit us at bttmtpodcast.com for trivia, play-alongs, merch, and more.

[49:17] J.J. Gonzalez: That's bttmtpodcast.com.

[49:20] Olaf: Follow us on Instagram and TikTok and find us on YouTube at Back to the Movie Theater with J.J. and Olaf.