Ep. 21 - SPECIAL! Batman 1989 Rewatch!

This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Olaf: Ladies and gentlemen, listeners out there, fans of this podcast, I gotta tell you, today is a very special, very special treat, because we are going to be watching Batman 1989, Michael Keaton, Jack Nicholson, one of the best movies ever, one of my favorite movies. And we are going to be watching from the beginning to the end, and you are going to have the opportunity to join in and watch along with us at home if you so choose. We're going to have it timed up and we'll let you know, and we'll count down, we'll hit play, and off we go. Now obviously, you're not going to hear it on our end, because we don't want Warner Brothers to sue us, because we have no money. So you're just going to hear us, we're going to be commenting and talking about the movie, and you can sit along, listen, watch along, however you want to do it, but we're very excited because this is something we've never done before.

But to add on to how special this episode is, and how big this episode is, not only are we doing that, we are in the same space! That's right, JJ is here with me today, on the couch, ready to watch, in our movie theater. JJ, hello! Hello! I see you, I can high-five you! Yes! Yes! And just for an added bonus, I am wearing my Batman shirt for this episode. You can't see it, but trust me, I'm wearing it. And like Olaf said, this is going to be really exciting. We hope you guys enjoy this as well, and if you have the time and have the means to do it, sit and watch the movie with us. Like he said, it'll be on mute, but hopefully, you know, we'll be able to keep the energy and the magic alive, and it'll be exactly like we are watching it all together.

Yeah, this is something we've kind of talked about in the past, and it's fun to actually get to try it. It is cool, and what you guys don't kind of fully understand is that this is the first episode where he and I have actually physically been in the same space, so to be able to like, just look right across and see him, it's kind of cool. Hopefully we'll be able to do more of these, but we're kind of taking advantage of an opportunity of being in the same space to do this, so we'll see how it goes. Yeah, so we are all set. JJ has his snacks. We've made sure he's removed all the wrappers. Wrappers are in the trash. We're here. We've got it already queued up. The big Warner Brothers logo is on the screen.

We are at three seconds, so for anybody following along, if you want to be right where we are in the movie, we are at three seconds, paused, ready to start. And for whatever reason you happen to be behind, hopefully what we're commenting on will help you sort of catch up or, you know, pause and, you know, get back into it, so we're kind of on the same track together. Yeah, and you know, if you love this movie as much as I do, and you don't actually need to watch it to know what's going on, we hope that you enjoy this. We hope you have fun. So, guys, sit back, relax, enjoy the movie, enjoy listening to us, hopefully, and we bring you back to the movie theater. All right. So, here we go. Three seconds in. Ready to hit play in three, two, one.

[3:49] JJ: Okay, so as the logo sort of disappears and we sort of get into the score and the music, I saw this movie in the theater. So, '89, I was like 11. I also saw this in the theater. It's one of the earlier memories I have. For me, I feel like it was in my memory. It's like the first movie I went to a movie theater. Well, this, I mean, I just remember this being such a huge deal from a marketing standpoint on television, you know, previews and stuff. And you walk in, and at that age, I didn't know Danny Elfman as a composer or even really that familiar with his music. So, I feel that this theme, the Batman '89 theme, it was my first exposure to Elfman.

[4:52] Olaf: Oh, absolutely.

[4:53] JJ: And his style. Well, because I'd seen Beetlejuice and Peewee, but...

[5:01] Olaf: Right, but I wasn't...

[5:03] JJ: I didn't, it didn't register. It wasn't until this score, which, you know, I love the opening of this because it's so amorphous. It's like you're going down all these like canals and seeing all these, the stone and all this, you have no idea. It's just dark and brooding, and you've got all the credits rolling and you have his music, the charge.

[5:27] Olaf: And so, do you feel like, because a lot of movies don't do credit sequences anymore at the front of the movie.

[5:32] JJ: Also, you get, yeah, just the Prince songs performed by Prince. I was like, what? But it almost feels like you're waiting for the movie to start, but you're so curious as to what is happening with the movement of the camera during the opening credit sequence. Because we don't know what we're looking at, but now it's starting to zoom out and we're about to get a look at what it is. It's just so well done. I don't mind movies that don't have opening credits because I'm like, let's get to...

[6:02] Olaf: Right, let's get to the action.

[6:04] JJ: Something like this, it was so well done because now we've got the Bat Emblem coming around. Rotating into the center of the screen, and on a big screen, it's amazing.

[6:17] Olaf: Look at that. It's just so cool. Directed by Tim Burton.

[6:20] JJ: Right. And man, at this point, he's so early on in his career, but he's firing on all cell phones.

[6:26] Olaf: Oh, yeah. Opening shot with what looks to be like a painting. It almost feels like a painting.

[6:32] JJ: But you had some moving lights there.

[6:33] Olaf: Yeah. What I love about this opening sequence where we see the husband and wife and little boy sort of navigating through the city with all of the action is, for me, and I don't know if he did this on purpose, but I always felt initially, oh, this is Thomas Wayne.

[6:54] JJ: Yeah.

[6:55] Olaf: You get that idea.

[6:56] JJ: You feel like, oh.

[6:57] Olaf: Oh, this is Bruce Wayne right there as a little boy. Origin story right here.

[7:00] JJ: We're going to start off right at the beginning, and we're going to see Bruce Wayne as a child and with his parents walking out of the theater because we kind of know that.

[7:11] Olaf: They're by the Monarch Theater.

[7:13] JJ: Right. What I love, though, is the sort of absent-mindedness of the dad. He's like that typical dad who doesn't want to ask for directions. They're trying to get somewhere.

[7:26] Olaf: Put the map away. We look like tourists.

[7:29] JJ: Yeah. And this set is amazing. I really love this set because it does look like an actual city.

[7:38] Olaf: Yeah.

[7:38] JJ: Much more so than the second movie, which we're not going to talk about, but I feel like this Gotham, I really dug this Gotham. It was dark and real and gritty.

[7:49] Olaf: It was a very long street in London, and they built up this whole set.

[7:56] JJ: Okay.

[7:56] Olaf: They built up the whole thing. Probably like 10, 12 feet high before it cuts off, and then it's like matte paintings and whatnot.

[8:06] JJ: Yeah. Which, again, also feel like, oh, well, this is when he's a kid, so maybe it is set in a much later or earlier time period than current day, but you already get the aesthetic of what they're trying to convey.

[8:25] Olaf: There's Batman.

[8:26] JJ: He does this little turn, and it's all animated.

[8:29] Olaf: All animated. It's so great.

[8:31] JJ: Then you wonder, is this a throw to the animated series and whatnot? It was just such an impossible shot.

[8:39] Olaf: I think the only way they were getting it was through animation.

[8:43] JJ: Yeah. Because it's so cool to see the shadow of the cape just sort of disappear in this really fast way.

[8:50] Olaf: Now, I love this bit with the two guys that robbed that family, because they're giving all this exposition, but in such a great way, and we're building onto that myth that there's this man bat creature stalking criminals.

[9:05] JJ: Yeah. And I love how this guy, the bat, get out of here. Then you get to see Batman sort of come down, and it's such a cool shot because it's almost... He doesn't need to be doing all of the extended arms with the cape, but it's so cool because that's the first time you see him.

[9:27] Olaf: He's really playing into the dramatic side of it to get that fear.

[9:34] JJ: Right. And prior to this, we didn't know if... Or people didn't know how we were going to react to this.

[9:43] Olaf: Oh, another great shot of him coming down.

[9:47] JJ: With the music as well, because this is all accompanied by Elfman's score.

[9:51] Olaf: And he gets shot.

[9:53] JJ: I don't understand. I mean, they got three to the chest, but doesn't everybody not really ever go for a...

[9:58] Olaf: It's the movies.

[9:59] JJ: I know. And these guys look rough. I mean, they look beaten up. They look like they need to be in the hospital. He gets the kick to the chest, and then this guy, he really gets... Nothing happens to him.

[10:11] Olaf: But he was running to the ledge of the building. Was he going to jump?

[10:15] JJ: I would have run through the open door that the other guy just got kicked through, but he decides to go to the ledge of the building.

[10:23] Olaf: And this is the epic scene, iconic scene.

[10:26] JJ: Don't kill me, man. Don't kill me. I'm not going to kill you. I want you to tell all your friends about me.

[10:31] Olaf: Who are you?

[10:32] JJ: I'm Batman.

[10:33] Olaf: I'm Batman.

[10:34] JJ: Perfect.

[10:35] Olaf: Perfect.

[10:35] JJ: He looks so good. The suit, everything. This is... I mean, no secret here. This is my favorite Batman of all. Michael Keaton is my Batman.

[10:48] Olaf: I'm not saying that the other guys weren't good. I've enjoyed all of them.

[10:53] JJ: But Michael Keaton is my guy. And to this day, my favorite Batmobile is the Keaton Burton.

[11:01] Olaf: Is the Keaton '89 Batman Burton.

[11:04] JJ: Oh, man. What I love here is they got Ed Koch, who was the mayor of New York City. I think he had just finished his term in the late '80s as a mayor, or he was still the mayor of New York City.

[11:17] Olaf: And, you know, Gotham City is sort of mirrored a little bit, but then you get, oh, Billy Dee.

[11:27] JJ: Billy Dee Williams.

[11:28] Olaf: Billy Dee Williams.

[11:28] JJ: Lando Calrissian.

[11:30] Olaf: Now, when I watched this as a kid, I was not really familiar with the Harvey Dent, Two-Face being the same character. Like that, when I going into this, that was not a knowledge that I had.

[11:44] JJ: At the age that I was at when I first saw this, it didn't register.

[11:48] Olaf: Right. So for me, he was just Harvey Dent. He was just a character.

[11:51] JJ: He was just the district attorney of Gotham.

[11:54] Olaf: And again, they're not focusing on him as a character. They're focusing on Jack as your villain.

[12:00] JJ: Jack Nicholson, who wasn't the original choice.

[12:04] Olaf: They had offered Robin Williams.

[12:05] JJ: No, Jack Nicholson was the original choice.

[12:08] Olaf: But he basically said no.

[12:12] JJ: Right. So then they told Robin Williams, hey, we got this great part.

[12:17] Olaf: And then they're like, so Jack, we're thinking about going with Robin Williams instead.

[12:22] JJ: And Jack went, I'll take it.

[12:23] Olaf: Yeah.

[12:24] JJ: So Robin Williams was not very happy about that.

[12:28] Olaf: Right.

[12:28] JJ: And he was really just kind of a pawn to get Jack to sign on.

[12:35] Olaf: Right. And so much so that he almost refused to work with Warner Brothers, Robin Williams for quite some time before until like the late '90s, because he had turned down the Riddler in Batman Forever.

[12:48] JJ: But Jack here is just.

[12:50] Olaf: He is pure Jack Nicholson.

[12:52] JJ: He's like prime.

[12:54] Olaf: This is Nicholson prime.

[12:57] JJ: I would agree.

[12:57] Olaf: I would agree.

[12:58] JJ: He'd already, I mean, he had had some obviously huge success in the '70s and '80s with, you know.

[13:05] Olaf: But like he's just oozing charisma here.

[13:08] JJ: Yeah.

[13:09] Olaf: I didn't ask.

[13:12] JJ: Oh, so good.

[13:14] Olaf: He's great.

[13:15] JJ: He is so great in this movie and a perfect choice really for it to play the Joker.

[13:21] Olaf: Yeah.

[13:22] JJ: I mean, don't get me wrong. Heath Ledger, what a surprise.

[13:26] Olaf: And honestly, I've liked all the Jokers except for Jared Leto.

[13:31] JJ: Right.

[13:31] Olaf: That was just.

[13:32] JJ: Yeah.

[13:33] Olaf: God awful.

[13:33] JJ: But Jack Nicholson is such a.

[13:37] Olaf: Yeah.

[13:38] JJ: Credible, iconic Joker.

[13:39] Olaf: And, you know, I asked you, I mentioned this the other day is I wish Jack had because he hasn't done a movie and he hasn't done a movie in a long time, and he just sort of faded off into the into the distance and like into the background.

[13:53] JJ: I wish he had.

[13:54] Olaf: I wish we knew that that was going to happen.

[13:56] JJ: Right.

[13:56] Olaf: So you can appreciate.

[13:57] JJ: That's Jack.

[13:58] Olaf: He's so cool.

[13:59] JJ: He doesn't need to do that.

[14:01] Olaf: I know.

[14:02] JJ: He's going to Irish goodbye.

[14:04] Olaf: He is.

[14:04] JJ: We're not going to know.

[14:06] Olaf: And so then you go and kind of go, man, I'm going to appreciate all the things he's done before.

[14:10] JJ: So now we've got we've moved on.

[14:13] Olaf: We're back in the alley.

[14:14] JJ: With Alexander Knox.

[14:15] Olaf: We've got Arliss.

[14:17] JJ: Yeah.

[14:17] Olaf: Robert Wool, fresh off of Bull Durham.

[14:20] JJ: And this character to me always seemed like a bit of an outlier.

[14:26] J.J.: Kind of our window. I mean, he's clearly the comedic, you know, the comic relief because that's who he is as an actor, and you've got Lieutenant Eckhart who, in my mind, he's just Harvey Bullock.

[14:43] Olaf: Yeah, but like corrupt.

[14:45] J.J.: But corrupt. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He 'cause even looks like him. I don't know which came first, Eckhart or Bullock. Yeah, 'cause I sort of tailor-made one for the other. They're really like a composite character. You got Bob the Goon.

[15:01] Olaf: Bob is great. Now, that was Nicholson's personal friend. That was like, "Hey, I wanted him on this movie," and he's iconic now.

[15:08] J.J.: Oh, yeah, he's great as far as like henchmen go for the bad guy. Now, I love this here. Jack gives him a bribe, but it's money in between sandwich bread. Yeah, he goes, "Good." Well, he says, "I brought you a little snack," and it's like a sandwich.

[15:27] Olaf: Hey.

[15:31] J.J.: It's a little on the nose but not quite if you don't see because sometimes it's hard. You miss the bread. You actually miss the physical piece of bread if you're not really looking. You're too busy focusing on the cash.

[15:39] Olaf: Yeah, so like no other movies do that. They just show you the cash.

[15:43] J.J.: Yeah, like I can't think of another movie where it was in a sandwich, right? And then Bob the Goon, quick to, yeah, what was good barrel on Eckhart's gun, man? It's so tiny.

[15:55] Olaf: It's but it's like this OG six-shooter.

[15:57] J.J.: Oh, yeah. I mean, and well, look at the world they're in. It's like all the cops have those. I think it's their standard.

[16:03] Olaf: Yeah, probably Bob working with a nine millimeter there. It looks like, yeah.

[16:14] J.J.: So again with Gotham because we're getting this sort of, it's like the 200th anniversary celebration of the city, and I love the fact that Harvey Dent is such an integral part of this movie because he was here.

[16:30] Olaf: But he is in the sense that they wanted to set him up.

[16:32] J.J.: Yeah. Yeah, they're doing this to set him up. Like they're giving Billy Dee enough material here to set him up for what could be something else, I guess. I mean, I never see him lose his temper. He's just like he's with the whole time. We ever see him.

[16:53] Olaf: He's with the mayor trying to like put on this birthday party for the city. That's it.

[16:59] J.J.: That's it. Yeah, I mean, he does a great job.

[17:01] Olaf: But he does. And then I love the newsroom here. The newsroom is great and the little homage to Bob Kane. I mean, Bob Kane drew this picture. Yeah, the bat is so great. Bob Kane being the, you know, creator of...

[17:14] J.J.: Hello.

[17:16] Olaf: Okay, do you feel that Kim Basinger was a good casting choice for Vicki Vale?

[17:22] J.J.: Well, that's just it. She wasn't. I know it was Sean Young, right? And she at the last second, she falls off a horse and broke her leg or something.

[17:30] Olaf: Yeah, and so she literally gets flown in and the next day or the day of, yeah, she's on set.

[17:40] J.J.: Yeah, so I'm just saying overall, I mean, she does a serviceable job. Are you believing her as this, you know...

[17:49] Olaf: You know, photographer? Are you saying that a woman with supermodel looks can't be a photographer? I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying...

[17:59] J.J.: That's what I'm here. Ladies, if you're listening, I'm on your side. Are we buying this? Are we buying Kim Basinger as Vicki Vale? And this is me asking you because you are more... You enjoy the comic book more. You have more of that sort of...

[18:10] Olaf: Well, honestly, I think all the comic versions of Vicki Vale have all latched on to how she played that character. Okay. I think she does a great job. No, she's too. She's very matter-of-fact. She has this investigative type of spirit.

[18:35] J.J.: It was just sort of odd to me that she was like, "I'm here because I'm really fascinated with bats," and that's not her. That's just the script, but I'm just kind of like, yeah, it seemed a little hokey for her to...

[18:47] Olaf: Well, I think she was nervous to say it because, yeah, it sounds so silly. Like even he, even Arliss is like, "Yeah, okay, who sent you?"

[19:06] J.J.: Ah.

[19:11] Olaf: Jack Palance, everybody. You talk about this guy is chewing up the scenery more than Jack. It's almost like we need somebody that's gonna play Grissom, and he's got to be somebody that can sort of match Nicholson and even maybe go a little more above and beyond. And this was before City Slickers.

[19:32] J.J.: So this is before a generation of people knew Jack Palance was because Jack Palance had been around forever. But he just does this amazing job. He's only in two scenes of this movie.

[19:41] Olaf: Yeah.

[19:45] J.J.: But he feels like he's in... His presence is felt from the time that we see him to the time yet, but because they talk about him prior to seeing him. Like we already knew who Grissom was because they had mentioned him. A few characters have mentioned him. He's gonna set up the betrayal that leads to Jack's Jack Napier becoming the Joker.

[20:08] Olaf: But oh God, he's... He just... He is so Jack Palance in this movie. It's almost like we were saying this earlier. It's almost like the director was like, "We need you to be more... Like we're looking for a Jack Palance type."

[20:21] J.J.: But I am Jack.

[20:26] Olaf: Right, but we need more. We need a little bit more. Whatever you do, it's not gonna be enough. I love it. He's like, "Jack, you're my number one guy. Don't forget you're lucky. You're lucky, Dick." Yeah, and then he leaves and he's like, "Get me Lieutenant..."

[20:43] J.J.: God, he's so slimy and grimy, but you still... I don't know. I like him.

[20:49] Olaf: I like him, and not because I feel like he's a good guy. You're just kind of like, "I wouldn't mind seeing more of Grissom." Like see what he's doing. But they give you just enough to make you want more, and it's perfect.

[21:04] J.J.: Get me Lieutenant...

[21:07] Olaf: So good. And now we're back at Wayne Manor. We get to see this, and we get to see Michael Keaton for the first time.

[21:13] J.J.: For the first time out of the suit. Right? What a scandal.

[21:19] Olaf: Oh, yeah. He was not the number one through five choice.

[21:22] J.J.: He wasn't even on a list of anybody that was making decisions when this was announced that he was going to be... This is 1989 when this movie comes out. So right, what, 1988, maybe '87 they announced the casting for this movie. Yeah, and no internet.

[21:39] Olaf: Nope, the world loses their mind.

[21:43] J.J.: I know, and I vaguely remember that. I'm not clocking it enough to like have an opinion on it. Like I was alive, but you know, I had no say in that matter because I was too young. But you're looking back at it, I'm like, what a cultural phenomenon. Like the outrage.

[22:01] Olaf: I know, and it's obviously now and even after the movie came out, you're kind of going, "I don't understand. He did great," but people were associating Michael Keaton with Mr. Mom and like Johnny Dangerously and comedies. But prior to this, he had just done Beetlejuice with Tim Burton, but he had done a movie called Clean and Sober, which is him playing this guy who's an alcoholic who's trying to get clean and sober. And so there was an edge to him, to Michael Keaton, that clearly Tim Burton saw that Tim Burton believed in. I could play this. I buy him as Batman, and I buy him as Bruce Wayne.

[22:47] J.J.: Yeah, 100%. A lot of people don't buy him as Bruce Wayne because he's not like the big chiseled strong...

[22:56] Olaf: He's more of a regular guy, but you know, who says only those guys are the millionaires, right?

[23:03] J.J.: Well, and Keaton made this choice too when he's Batman to lower his voice.

[23:11] Olaf: Yes, in that sort of nuts grovelly, but just a different timbre, different octave than he would be with Bruce Wayne, which would be used for future people playing that character as a choice. And Tim Burton pointed out like, "Hey, I wanted to cast somebody who, you know, they have to put on a suit to be intimidating," right? And all of this stuff. Yeah, so I don't know. I just, I watched this, and even when I was a kid, it made sense. I got it immediately. He's a recluse billionaire, right, who has charm and some comedy.

[23:51] Olaf: And well, this is why I find it so interesting that people were up in arms about this because prior to this version of Batman, the only other example or the only other person that people knew of was Adam West playing Batman in the '60s, which was like 20 years prior. And you look at that, and of course, it's... Well, that was the other thing was like they were saying, "We're gonna have a more serious Batman, darker," and then they cast Michael Keaton, right? And everyone's like, "You lied to us." Right? This is gonna be more Adam West. It's gonna be goofy, and they were like, "No, not at all."

[24:30] J.J.: And so it just, that always obviously later on always surprised me. It's kind of like you guys... And that's what there's a part of me that was glad that I was the age I was when it did come out because I had no preconceived idea if it was gonna be great, it was gonna be great. And if it wasn't, no well. I mean, I grew... I watched the Adam West episodes. I watched the Super Friends. I watched all the cartoons, Batman and Robin on Scooby-Doo. And so I knew the campsite of it, and I loved it. Yeah, and I had some of the comic books. I just loved Batman.

[25:05] Olaf: I've always loved. So at the party, and this is sort of like we get this really cool scene where Vicki Vale and Knox are like sort of wandering around and get lost in this sort of room of, you know, antiquities that Bruce Wayne seems to have. And Keaton just shows up, and he's like, "Oh man, where is this from?" And he's like, "Well, it's because that's where I bought it." You know, he's got this huge collection of stuff, and you know, we get this true introduction that he is Bruce Wayne in a very sort of pedestrian way, which I love because we as the audience already know that he's Bruce Wayne, but there's no big sort of like reveal. And he is just sort of this everyday guy who, you know, gets to walk around his own party almost not bothered. Like he's there almost as a guest himself, which is kind of neat too.

[26:15] J.J.: He's throwing these fundraisers that he doesn't really... A lot of times he's aware of what they're raising, but maybe money not before he's, you know, obviously Alfred. Alfred, by the way, played by Michael Gough, who was in all of the Batmans even after Keaton left, or the first four Batmans, I should say, who I thought was a great Alfred as well. And then Keaton gets an opportunity here to sort of showcase his type of personality and type of humor. It's not... I guess it's sort of dry, but it's sort of just sort of his persona or his personality.

[27:02] Olaf: I will say that there are certain things about the movie that may or may not hold up. The tech, I mean, the huge, like the five to six camcorders he has behind the huge mirror that he uses to like as his surveillance are very, you know, late '80s, early '90s camcorders that he uses. We finally get to see the first shot of the Batcave. I love this Batcave with all of his like 1980s monitors. I don't... They might as well be the '60s with the tech he's got in there.

[27:38] J.J.: It does. I mean, it does. I'm not complaining. I think because I was gonna ask you earlier, do you feel this movie ages well?

[27:46] Olaf: Absolutely.

[27:47] J.J.: Absolutely. Even with the somewhat antiquated tech that he's using, like just specifically in the Batcave. I mean, you're talking about he's got some tube TVs as screens. Big deal. That's... It's still set up in a really cool way, and we don't even get to see all of it. We just see this sort of small piece of the Batcave before we get a sense to access chemicals. Plus, the other thing about this movie and the costumes and the sets, it really kind of gives you this sense that you're in this alternate kind of reality. So the things that are slightly off because you got all the gangsters in pinstripe suits.

[28:35] Olaf: Oh, yeah, but you've got all this other tech. It doesn't matter. The technology works, and I agree by it. It's set in this sort of general time period, general setting as well.

[28:50] J.J.: Even now compared to like the Nolan and the Robert Pattinson, there's still some cool things that he's doing that you still look cool. He still makes it look cool. Yeah, but like all of this feels like the comics. All this feels like the animated series without it being cheesy because it never feels campy.

[29:20] Olaf: No, this movie never feels over the top. They nailed the assignment.

[29:50] J.J.: Yeah, because Batman in the comics and on TV was just pure camp for so long. So Jack just shoots down Eckhart. Yeah, obviously he's upset. He knows that he got double-crossed, you know, and Eckhart's part of it. But like, oh, and then you get that man again, the ricochet. Sorry, you were...

[30:20] Olaf: Well, I was... yeah, well, I got distracted now 'cause Jack's now, you know, Batman. You're trying to save Jack before he falls into the vat of chemicals, but he was clearly, obviously Jack is not all there because he's willing to take out Eckhart in front of everybody and then thinking he's got the exit strategy because the exit door's right there. It's confident.

[30:50] J.J.: Yeah, I mean, but like what was his game plan there to go take out Grissom, I guess, after that? And then, well, you get more... he's gonna be on the run after at this point if he's gonna shoot a cop in front of other cops and then escapes. But you get more of an idea of who he is from the files that Batman brings up about Napier later.

[31:20] Olaf: The smoke was... this, I feel like this was done, this sort of escape route smoke idea was done in other things prior to this. I mean, I feel like it was done for not, but I mean, you vanish. It's like, so yes, but it was probably only seen in those types of things where now it's much more commonplace in like thieves trying to get out of a situation, burglar heists, things like that.

[31:50] J.J.: Yeah, but I mean, now most Batman movies he just disappears. They got rid of the smoke part.

[32:20] Olaf: Yeah, yeah, it's that hand that comes up out of the water. Yeah, I always... I can almost guarantee you it's a fake hand. Well, the first time I saw it because of the index finger and the fourth finger are painted nails. Yeah, it almost looked like eyeballs to me initially when I first saw it, and then I was like, oh no, that's his hand.

[32:50] J.J.: Yeah, it looks... I think it might move a little bit.

[33:00] Olaf: Yeah, it does. His hand moves. It also looks very like animatronic or robotic. Yeah, the hat, the Vicki Vale hat with the... so '80s, you know, fashion, whatever.

[33:20] J.J.: Oh, that's right. She gets invited to dinner to Bruce Wayne's. Is that... yeah, he wastes no time.

[33:30] Olaf: He doesn't. He saw her for like five minutes at this party, and she wastes no time.

[33:40] J.J.: But this table is insane. I love this. But this is a great bit with this, like you pass the salt. What table? That's like a mile and a half long, which is not uncommon, again, with movies. I mean, it always reminds me of Coming to America, which came out before that, where Akeem, Eddie Murphy's on one end and his James Earl Jones and his mom are way on the other, and they've got the... but they've got the speaker like they're talking with each other through the monitor. But like the idea that you're like, yeah, let's have dinner in here.

[34:10] Olaf: Yeah, we are gonna have dinner in this room. There are chairs right here closer. We're gonna sit at opposite ends of the table instead of just sitting right.

[34:20] J.J.: Yeah, 'cause it's a fairly thin table. Okay, so answer me this if you can because obviously in the comic book world, is Bruce Wayne a lady? Does he host? Does he have ladies over? Or are we supposed to assume that he's doing this for the... like he hasn't had a woman over for dinner in a long time? Because I feel like...

[34:40] Olaf: I think in this Tim Burton film he has mostly just been a recluse. He'll host fundraising stuff, but for the most part, I think it's just him and Alfred. But like in the comics, he'll date. He'll have ladies come over just for appearance.

[35:00] J.J.: Which makes this scene that we're in right now where they decide to go out of the dining room into the kitchen, and it's not... the scene isn't even that long, but you get to see Alfred talk with Vicki Vale and Bruce Wayne about his childhood even if it's for a brief moment. But you get this really cool moment between Alfred and Bruce that was carried over into subsequent versions, like the Nolan, you know, they really embrace that relationship.

[35:30] Olaf: Well, I think because then they even talk a little bit about it too. I don't know if the comics are always great at portraying that familial relationship, but the relationship that they have is so iconic, yeah, whether it's in whatever medium. So they do just a great job of making it sweet.

[36:00] J.J.: Yeah, and because every time Alfred comes in, you know he's not... you already know he's not just the help.

[36:10] Olaf: Right, right. And I thought Tim Burton did a really good job of showing that very quickly and very simply in that scene where he's talking with Vicki Vale and with Bruce Wayne because it is... I mean, because when you think about it, depending on the version, Alfred isn't really tasked with a lot depending on the version that you're in. And so it was really cool to get that. But I did like that in all the subsequent films, yes, he is in... he never really changed his character.

[36:40] J.J.: No, but the directors after Burton changed the characters that stayed. Like Commissioner Gordon just became a clown after Returns, and it's like, right, okay.

[37:00] Olaf: Oh yeah, yeah, because of the tone of the film and the style of filming. Yeah, Alfred sort of was able to adapt.

[37:10] J.J.: Here, this scene when Jack... this scene when Jack's, you know, in the grittiest part of Gotham getting his surgery done in an alleyway, always mirror... it always... that didn't freak me out, but it was just crazy. Like when he's ripping the bandages off his head and he's got the bandage on his hand and you don't know what he's gonna look like. But I love... and then they show the scene of all of like the tools that the doctor... I don't see what they have to work with. He's got all these like wild tools that you would normally see as like torture devices and other... such an iconic scene.

[37:50] Olaf: There's an episode of The Simpsons where Lisa gets braces and they like... they redo this. It's so good, but it's almost like Marathon Man, you know? And now we get to hear his the Joker laugh. Yeah, first time. So iconic.

[38:10] J.J.: And then we're back. We're back at the mansion, and you're right, like you said, they waste no time. And I feel like this is now she's tipsy. He is acting like it, I guess. It's hard to tell. He might be a little bit. He's definitely not tipsy, but I love his line where he goes, what does he say? Two drinks and I'm flying? I want to say one brings him.

[38:40] Olaf: Yeah, I love that. I just... I was saying this earlier how there are moments when he's drunk, she's not tipsy. I know there are moments where we get to see Keaton be Keaton, like in terms of humor, in terms of delivery. It's almost like when we first see him at the party and he's got the penny and then he offers, give Knox a grant, you know? He's like just little things like that.

[39:10] J.J.: Oh, this scene is one of my favorite scenes of this... any movie. This is the second and final scene of Jack Palance's character of Grissom that you... sugar bumps. Ah, this is so great. In the shadows, you don't really get to see him yet, Jack. You don't get to see Jack yet as the Joker.

[39:40] Olaf: Oh, Jack is dead, my friend. It's such a cool reveal still. It's very liberating.

[40:00] J.J.: It's... but you can call me the Joker, and as you can see, I'm a lot, a lot happier. He's... and you can... I mean, I love the shadow. Yeah, it's almost feels like they, you know, with earlier like graphic novels and stuff. That is so good.

[40:30] Olaf: So me, the only thing about it, he's got that purple on his neck. Yeah, but I wouldn't even... but it's so good. You got the music playing.

[40:50] J.J.: Yeah, oh yeah, the music, and he's just shooting, having a great time. Like he's just learning, and he's having so much fun.

[41:10] Olaf: Yeah, he hit him twice, and the other four went somewhere else 'cause the prosthetics on his face just look seamless and amazing.

[41:30] J.J.: Yeah, what a day. What a day. This bit always made me laugh because it's so like... it's a little much. It's a little on the nose.

[41:50] Olaf: Oh, where he's... oh no, not yet. We're... where he's hanging upside down.

[42:00] J.J.: Yeah, yeah, well, I don't think we're there yet. Well, we're about to be, yeah, 'cause we got to go back to Jack and wing freak terrorizes when they get a load of me. But yeah, here comes the upside down.

[42:30] Olaf: Yeah, yeah, it didn't bother me, and it still doesn't.

[43:15] J.J.: It doesn't bother me. It bothers a lot of people.

[43:20] Olaf: Really? It does?

[43:27] J.J.: Yeah, I've heard people complain about it.

[43:34] Olaf: Because they're like, it's stupid. Well, I get, I mean, I can understand the hokeyness of it because, you know, I mean, I get it. Bats, you know, rest and sleep upside down. And so we get to see him do that too. It didn't, it doesn't ever, I don't understand why people bother. It's so funny too with Jack because you have to think he probably had so much fun with this.

[43:50] J.J.: Oh, absolutely. Like you see it. We just need you to be, you dialed up a little bit.

[44:05] Olaf: Yeah. Um, where they get a load of me.

[44:11] J.J.: He's so good. And he didn't have to, uh, shave a mustache like, uh, well, Cesar Romero didn't shave it either.

[44:15] Olaf: That's what I'm saying. He didn't have to shave it cause he didn't have one.

[44:19] J.J.: Cesar Romero was like, I'm not going to shave my mustache.

[44:25] Olaf: And then, uh, and now he's already trying to like one night stander.

[44:30] J.J.: I know. Nope. I got things to do, but he still wants to like, but he's not brushing her off. He's, he's just not, he's a complicated guy.

[44:38] Olaf: He's yeah. But he, you know, it's, you get to see the flawed sort of human element of, um, Bruce Wayne that I don't think because it was the sixties, you ever really get to see that with Adam West. There's no real, in my opinion, I don't think really true vulnerability that you're getting with Adam West's Bruce Wayne.

[44:56] J.J.: Like that's grounded in any sort of, because there's so much camp around the Batman series and that movie. Yeah. But like if you watch the Adam West Batman movie, he gets all vulnerable with, uh, Catwoman.

[45:11] Olaf: I know. But again, in that tone, there's only a certain sort of weight that that carries as opposed to something like this, where this is a full on comic book movie. As we see Jack in like her hat and, you know, with a bottle or the glass of a martini in his hand.

[45:40] J.J.: Later on, we get to see so many cool, uh, makeup effects. I feel like this is one of them right here. Uh, as Jack's talking with, you know, the board Grissom's no longer here. Um, and he's got the, you know, flesh toned makeup on.

[46:04] Olaf: Yeah. So I've heard different stories about this. Like I've heard from the people who made the movie that he has the white underneath.

[46:12] J.J.: I would disagree with that.

[46:18] Olaf: Same, but based according to the makeup people who did this movie, they put the white and then they put the, they put the white on. Then they put this other type of special makeup on that looks flesh color. So when he pulls out the handkerchief and wipes, that's how you see the white. But every time I watch this, I feel like he, when he wipes his brow, he's just putting the white makeup on it.

[46:42] J.J.: To me, it always looks like he's pulling the handkerchief with like a sponge or something that's hidden in the handkerchief out so he can wipe white makeup on his brow. That's how I've always seen it.

[46:56] Olaf: That's how I've always seen it. But according to interviews, they use the special type of, uh, grease paint or something that would sit on top of the makeup on top of the white makeup.

[47:09] J.J.: Well, because it would just, to me, it just seems so much easier to just, that's his, that's his own skin. That's his own tone. So he's grabbing it now and he's, he's got it. And who knows, he could have something right there off camera. Takes a frame and then he's wiping. But I mean, I don't know.

[47:28] Olaf: I don't know either. To me, I feel like it would have just been easier to have, that's just white makeup above his own.

[47:37] J.J.: That's what I thought because I'm like, okay, that's a cool effect that you're just cheating by having. But according to the interviews, I'm just telling you, according to the people that were there and who would know better than me cause they were there. He, the white is underneath the flesh makeup.

[47:54] Olaf: So do you feel like now that, Oh, he did say Jack is dead. You can call me the joker. Cause his wardrobe now Joker's wardrobe goes, you know, a little like where before we saw him, he's just wearing like a nice purple suit, purple suit. And now it's, he's got some more, you know, it's a pinstripe and we're back to the pinstripes, bright oranges and greens and the purple gloves now because obviously his hands are, and Bob's got the leather jacket or he has the Joker Joker logo. I'm like, well, you guys didn't waste any time on the merch.

[48:25] J.J.: Nope. People need to know because he's about to take over. Yeah. Uh, this where he, where he handshakes with the, with the, with the buzzer and fries this guy on the board, man. But it's a little like it's dark, it's dark. Um, borderline obviously. Um, it's a PG 13 movie, so they're, they're not holding back there. And it's Burton. Uh, so it could have been worse. Um, but it's almost like just comic book real. I think Tim Burton does a really amazing job of towing the line between comic book and quote unquote reality and sort of, uh, merging those two ideas together.

[49:07] Olaf: I just, I feel like nothing the Joker does in this movie is out of character.

[49:16] J.J.: Oh, I agree with that. I don't, and I like that it has more of an edge to it because at this point in time, all we've had is basically Cesar Romero.

[49:31] Olaf: Right. Who is great. I love his Joker, but you know, he's in that camp world. So he, he's not doing anything like super lethal.

[49:38] J.J.: Well, and that's why I feel like anything that Jack gets to do, Keaton gets to do, especially in this movie, you're going, okay, well, I've got Adam West and I've got Cesar Romero as my, the only two character or actors that play these characters that people know. So we're going to be okay with what the choices that I make as Bruce Wayne or the choices that I choose to make as the Joker, you know?

[50:06] Olaf: Yeah. Now how Bruce doesn't immediately see Vicki Vale waiting in the car outside the mansion. It's like, maybe he does, maybe he does.

[50:18] J.J.: No, he definitely does. We're watching her following him now and he's so consumed with, you know, it's the anniversary of my parents' death. I got to lay the flowers. So, and then, you know, he, he's about to get shot in the shoulder and not feel a thing.

[50:38] Olaf: All right. Yeah. Cause we're about to get to that part too, but we haven't gotten there yet. We're at now we're outside of the theater, which of the scene we haven't seen yet, um, which is, or the hotel, um, which is where his parents were, were gunned down.

[50:51] J.J.: Yeah. Um, like we know what it is because it like, unless you lived under a rock, even at this point, you know, what the origin story of, cause you've got the comics at this point. Cause the, before this movie came out, the comics had gotten darker because of, well, they had, um, yeah. And so the dark night returns and all that stuff.

[51:11] Olaf: But I mean, even for, I think even from a general audience standpoint, I don't know, there might've been a lot of people that weren't aware of this element of his character and of his story.

[51:30] J.J.: They're not really bad.

[51:39] Olaf: Well, no, but they're, they're fans of, they're fans of the, of the show, of the, of the old 60 show. And, and the marketing, the marketing of this movie was at the time, I mean, with the product placement, the product placement, the market was a juggernaut. It was ridiculous.

[51:46] J.J.: Um, so this bit coming up here, we get to see the Joker and some fun makeup in the mind.

[51:58] Olaf: Oh yeah. Outside of, uh, the city hall where, uh, Grissom's goons are decided to tell that Grissom is no longer in charge.

[52:04] J.J.: Yeah. And they're in charge, but Joker's gonna take them all out. But okay. So that all happens. Michael Keaton gets shot in the shorts. So are we suggesting, is the movie suggesting that his suit that he's wearing Cavalier?

[52:20] Olaf: No, that he's wearing the Batman suit under the jacket.

[52:26] J.J.: I don't think so. I think cause he doesn't get, I think the jacket itself, I think the idea here is that the jacket gets, it gets blown out. No, I mean, but it, but the jacket is loose enough maybe cause he doesn't get shot in the shoulder. He doesn't, he's not nursing a wound.

[52:42] Olaf: No. So there's no way he's wearing the suit underneath. I, that's, I never thought so either, but every time he takes the shot, but when he takes the coat off later, yeah. Does he have a coat, but does he have a bullet on his, cause he's wearing a suit underneath the coat?

[52:58] J.J.: Yeah. He's just wearing the suit. Right. Does this, he takes the jacket off and Alfred finger.

[53:02] Olaf: I know, but does the suit coat have a hole in it also?

[53:10] J.J.: Yes. Oh, the suit. I don't know. This is what I'm saying. So I feel like the bullet obviously shot through the overcoat that he's wearing the trench coat or whatever. Um, and that was it. Cause baggy enough. And the shot was just wide enough where it misses his arm completely because that's not the important, the important part is, is that he is. So every time I've watched this, to me, it looks like he takes the, the bullet straight on into the shoulder.

[53:29] Olaf: Uh, and I've always interpreted it a little different, uh, in terms of, in terms of, of how he's, of how he's getting, um, of how it happens. Uh, but you're right. I mean, he, what I love too, is that it's not even that crowded in the street. There's like, and there's just two cops. There's like two cops, there's 15 reporters and there's eight people like eight pedestrians, more, uh, mimes with Tommy guns. That was a full, uh, straight on shot in my opinion, in the shoulder.

[54:06] J.J.: I see. And I'm, and I looked at it differently only because as he, the jacket's a little baggier that he's not clearly not nursing. He's wearing the suit under the jacket. That would be a, so, and here's why I don't think he is because the headpiece is connected to the suit. He would have had to have been wearing the cowl also.

[54:24] Olaf: No, the, the cowl sits on top. But anyway, did you notice when they opened up fire with the Tommy guns and bullets are going everywhere and the two cops at the top of the stairs, just bullet explosions all behind them. And they're just like, they get some, a couple of shots off before they're, they would have been dead.

[54:51] J.J.: Oh yeah. I love this line though. What kind of a world do we live in where a man dressed up like a bat steals all my press? This town needs an enema. I love that.

[55:06] Olaf: Even Bob's like, um, okay. Yeah. So he's like, get that, but there's no hole in it.

[55:16] J.J.: There's a tear in his suit coat. No, no. So the coat itself is Kevlar is, is baggier enough to miss his shoulder. I mean, I got coats, I'm a small guy. I got coats that will, why don't you marry her?

[55:31] Olaf: This scene is great. Cause he's like tired and stuff. And then in Batman returns, he's just fought with cat woman for the first time. And he's like all tired and gets on the phone. Apparently they had many shots trying to figure out how Batman would talk on the phone.

[56:13] J.J.: This is another scene here with Alfred and Bruce that it just, you get that sort of familial and it's not that long. These scenes aren't that long, but they're, um, tight. They're well-written and then it's back to business. We got to get, you know, some information on what we need to do. And, uh, I mean, now he's got to fix things with Vicky.

[56:29] Olaf: Um, I always saw in all of the Batman movies that this version of Alfred was in Keaton had the best relationship with him.

[56:39] J.J.: Oh. And as compared to like the second one,

[56:45] Olaf: well, with Val Kilmer or George Clooney.

[56:53] J.J.: Oh, I see what you're saying. Like, oh yeah. I mean, and it's hard to, cause I think Clooney that there's a bright moment in the Clooney film is that they make Alfred like he's about to die. And so the stakes are a little higher there. You almost wish that Keaton had been able to, to play those types of scenes with, with, uh, with Alfred.

[57:10] Olaf: I never thought that George Clooney was a bad Batman, even though he will tell you he was a bad, bad man. I think he was a good Bruce Wayne, but I don't think he was a good Batman.

[57:22] J.J.: Well, I just think he, I think kind of reminded me of Michael Keaton, but he was never given.

[57:29] Olaf: Well, the script, the whole movie is awful. Like by the time that George Clooney shows up, it is a straight up Adam West cartoon.

[57:40] J.J.: So Bob just walks in with a bunch of pictures from the, you know, what happened, and Jack sees the picture of Vicky Vale and he's just mesmerized. Stop the presses! And he gets his scissors, and the music is this sort of like, you know, piano swell, and he's like, "Oh!" and he's got to stay within the lines. I love this scene, yeah, because it's, I mean, he's like you said earlier, everything that he does is never out of character. Like everything he does in this movie as the Joker, everything the Joker does in this movie is right on point. Even his immediate obsession with Vicky Vale based off this picture, and he cuts it out and he's like, "We gotta meet her!" And like they explain later from his files that he is into art and all of that stuff, so that's why he's making these collages of dead people smiling and stuff.

But I always just loved this scene where he's like, "Stop the presses!" and he starts dancing around in circles because he's found the one. Because what we find out later is that obviously the girl that he was dating prior is very similar in terms of look.

[58:53] Olaf: Yeah, the blonde, tall blonde type is very similar in type. He's taking over Axis Chemicals; he's gonna turn everyone into the Joker, right? But in a deadly way. Which is an interesting sort of like when you always think of like, "Well, what's the bad guy's motive? Like what's their sinister plot or their sinister plan?" to stay within the comic book realm. This seemed very obviously comic booky in terms.

[59:18] J.J.: Oh, absolutely! Well, but that was right. Joker's MO was he would kill people and leave them with a big Joker smile, right? Like Joker gas or, yeah, Joker toxin. So I had, I loved these two, the female anchor here who's reporting the story of these two women that have, you know, been killed and they've got the smiles on their face. And I always love the actress, and I don't know who this actress is, but she's just like in mid-sentence just starts breaking out in, or not mid-sentence, during the, just a hysterical laughter. She's like, "And..." but you get to see her sort of kind of go through this sort of transformation, which I always thought was cool too from an acting standpoint because, yeah, it's a little, you know, over the top, but I thought she did great. And you then you get to see this sort of evolution of these characters and how they have to, you know, not get, you know, killed by this, whatever it is, they don't know why this is happening.

[1:00:32] Olaf: Well, that's how Batman becomes like a symbol of possible good to the people because he cracks the chemical code, yeah, and gets that to the police and the press. Right? And then the Joker commercial, love that Joker! So when I showed my son this movie, and he was younger at the time, he was probably like eight or seven, we would go around, he's been using Brand X! We would go around going, "Love that Joker!" And so it's still like, I always just love that because you see these women has a smile again, and now she's got it. And I love this iconic shot of him on the beach chair with the sunglasses. He looks so cool; it's such a good look.

[1:01:18] J.J.: Yeah, those red sunglasses are pretty sweet. I do love those sunglasses. Love that Joker! Yeah, like, it's just he's such an amazing Joker. I'm hard-pressed to say who is my favorite Joker. Well, actually, no, I'm not. My favorite Joker is Mark Hamill.

[1:01:41] Olaf: Okay, well, yeah, from, if you're gonna go, you know, cartoon of all the people who've played the Joker, he's done it the longest, right? And he carries, I think, the most characteristics of the Joker.

[1:01:57] J.J.: Well, that's because he's one animated. Now, not that Mark isn't doing a lot of work with the voice because he's doing all of it. But like he has that silly side; he has that psychotic side, and he can turn it on a dime. But what I, you know, what Jack has to do is not make people forget about Cesar Romero, but he's got to play it in a way that's similar to Cesar so people can go, "Okay, well, she does what she does." But then also, and these news anchors, man, they just have no makeup on anymore. Yeah, this guy's got a zit on his nose like he's 13 years old.

[1:02:39] Olaf: Well, I think we have to assume that time has passed some. Oh man, this girl's hair! I'm also like, I know it's played up for comedic value, but it's like, geez, get a comb! Get some, run some water through your hair! Yeah, but getting back to like the Joker, you know, Jack does a really good job of catering to the old, you know, Cesar Romero fan base and then creating something that clearly lived iconically for almost two decades before Heath Ledger.

[1:03:12] J.J.: Almost before Heath! Like no one was, everyone was like, "You can't touch that!" Right? But Mark Hamill at the time was already doing his, but, and he was killing it, right? And so, you know, I understand that, you know, especially the, but if you're looking, if you're talking like to the general public, they're not, Mark Hamill's not even on their radar, which is sad because, well, he really is the best, I think he has. But the accessibility of that is an understanding of the character, yeah, and he embodies the character the best. But the mass accessibility of that character is not consumed by your general movie-going public. They're gonna go Cesar Romero, they're gonna go Jack, and then they're gonna go Heath Ledger.

[1:04:01] Olaf: Well, that's your opinion.

[1:04:03] J.J.: Well, I mean, I, so the girl, the girlfriend, she's got the mask on. Yeah, are we to assume there that he's tried some certain stuff with her chemically and it's just not working?

[1:04:12] Olaf: No, I don't think it's because it's not working. I think he's just psychotic and he's like, "You are living art to me," right? And I'm going to mold you the way I want, but without doing the, but I'm not going to kill you. I'm not doing, you're not going to use any of these chemicals; she kills herself, right? I understand that, but it's just a sort of this idea that I'm going to use you because I'm scarred myself and you're with me.

[1:04:40] J.J.: Well, I think he's just like, "This is the new look! I love this look, and I want everyone to look this way, and I'm going to kill a bunch of people as well." Yeah, this is coming up. Yeah, so we're at the museum where she's at the art museum, the Flugelheim Museum, which is an interesting take on the Guggenheim, I would imagine. At the, you know, upstairs, she's here to meet Bruce and talk about her photography, so she's brought...

[1:05:17] Olaf: Well, no, she just brought all her stuff.

[1:05:19] J.J.: Oh, that's right, that's right. This mask, I was, when I first saw this, man, like, what is this supposed to be like? Because it doesn't look like...

[1:05:27] Olaf: Well, because at that time, as a kid, you're like, "What's a gas mask?" Well, not only that, but are we to assume that that little thing, if she's, is gonna keep her from getting killed? And we got a guy dressed up like a bat.

[1:05:40] J.J.: Well, I mean, but she's gonna have to because she doesn't put it on; she has to hold it, and now she's got to, you better be pressing that thing up against your face, yeah, or you are... Are these people dying or are they just getting knocked out?

[1:05:56] Olaf: I'm assuming, I always assume that they're dead.

[1:05:58] J.J.: Yeah, yeah, the door is open, and now we've got Jack Nicholson with his gang of goons having so much fun with the big old ghetto blaster boombox, straight up '80s. I mean, I just love it when he's like, "Lawrence!" and he hits it, and then we got Prince!

[1:06:17] Olaf: Prince! Oh, just, yeah, now they're just coming through here. So was Prince a Batman fan? Like, to me, it always seemed very random that we're gonna get Prince to do some additional music of the time for the soundtrack. Was he a fan of Batman?

[1:06:33] J.J.: I don't think, I don't know if he was a fan. I think they’d gone to who was big at the time to like get some stuff. I honestly, I forget the story behind him joining the project, but I know that there were some issues, and I know that they needed more than just Prince; that's how Danny Elfman got brought on to it. They needed some kind of orchestral score, right? They couldn't just be the music of Prince because he wasn't going to do a score. But I mean, Prince was five years out of Purple Rain, so I mean, I get that, and he was still, he was still, yeah, very big. You got the Bat Dance out of this, so you got the Bat Dance! But this whole scene where they're just walking around the museum, trashing the art, which I'm not obviously in support of, clearly, but they're just having so much fun.

[1:07:41] Olaf: Not this one, Bob! I kind of like this one!

[1:07:49] J.J.: And just having so much fun, and they cleared out the smoke fairly fast, yeah, because they walk into the museum not affected by the smoke.

[1:08:03] Olaf: No, and it was still very much in the system, in the air.

[1:08:08] J.J.: They're immune! Okay, I just, all right, you know, hey, now his goons are not immune to the green gas he uses later, right?

[1:08:12] Olaf: I love that lighter; the lighter's great! Flamethrower! And we always, whenever my son and I talk about this, we always say, "I'll sometimes I'll go, it's one dollar bill, it's one dollar bill, Joker! It's one dollar bill, Joker!" because he always says, "My face on the one dollar bill!" Yeah, he's looking at all the pretty photos; he's like, "Crap! Yeah, crap, crap!" Ah, here we go, Corto Maltese!

[1:08:39] J.J.: Yeah!

[1:08:47] Olaf: She's just looking at him like, "What is happening? Who are you? Where's Bruce?"

[1:08:54] J.J.: Well, and then she tries now, oh, because he wants to scar her right here. This is the idea with the flower; he's got the flower, he's got the acid in the flower, and so at a certain point, that's the inevitability is that he's gonna...

[1:09:04] Olaf: So going back to the makeup, because we talked about the flesh color makeup in the earlier scene, and he's wearing it again in this museum scene. Now this scene, I can understand where they put the white on first, and then they put this makeup on first because...

[1:09:19] J.J.: The water!

[1:09:20] Olaf: The water, and then he's, you know, doing all of this.

[1:09:28] J.J.: Well, then you have to be able to accept the previous scene then, yes and no. I mean, why would they not do...

[1:09:35] Olaf: Because you don't need all of that for the first scene. He only wipes his brow in the first scene.

[1:09:39] J.J.: In this, you don't know he's an actor!

[1:09:41] Olaf: Yeah, J.J., get out! He might improvise!

[1:09:45] J.J.: Stop! No, I mean, unless Jack's saying, "Look, I may want to wipe..." No, I mean, I'm pretty sure Jack walks on set and he's like, "Hey, Tim, you know, I'm just gonna go a little loose."

[1:10:00] Olaf: Oh, I have no doubt he'll do this all day! He even said it in like when he was doing A Few Good Men, he goes to Rob Reiner, he goes, "I love acting! I'll do whatever you want! Like, I'll sit here and all day!" So I get that. But you can even see the, for whatever reason, the makeup in this scene, the flesh-colored makeup in this scene, no, it looks way, to me, looks different than in the original, than in the boardroom scene when he takes...

[1:10:27] J.J.: All right, let's bring up the comparisons!

[1:10:29] Olaf: Bring it up!

[1:10:30] J.J.: There's just, to me, you can, to me, it looks like, you know, they're obviously prepping for this other, this white makeup reveal here when she throws the water on his face. It just, in the eyes, it looks a little, I don't know...

[1:10:48] Olaf: When he flaps his wings as the bat, and now he's gonna have her smell the rose, smell the, what is that, like an orchid?

[1:10:55] J.J.: Yeah, I guess so. It looks like an orchid, yeah, because she, yeah, he was ready to go full on, "I'm gonna get you with the acid right here!"

[1:11:01] Olaf: Yeah, he was a little, he shot a little high.

[1:11:03] J.J.: He was a little shot way high, and he's like, "There's no..." It doesn't take away; there's no...

[1:11:13] Olaf: Oh, they absolutely cut away!

[1:11:14] J.J.: They absolutely cut away, do they?

[1:11:16] Olaf: Yeah, yeah, see, here comes, and boo! And then the iconic, that white makeup though looks too perfect.

[1:11:28] J.J.: Oh, look at that! That white makeup looks too perfect! This whole, oh, this whole scene where Batman comes in with the crossbow, you know, we gotta kick the door! It's so dramatic too! It's, "I gotta kick these big doors down with my legs!" Where does he get these wonderful toys? And then he throws the smoke bomb! I always love that scene when he says that line, and then here we go, guys! Oh, the greatest Batmobile!

[1:12:00] Olaf: Oh yeah, we finally get to see this!

[1:12:01] J.J.: This is true! So cool! Isn't it wild to you?

[1:12:05] J.J.: Welcome back to a special episode of Back to the Movie Theater! Today, we're doing a rewatch of the 1989 classic, Batman.

[1:12:35] Olaf: That's right! We're both in the same location, and we thought it would be fun to watch this iconic film together.

[1:13:05] J.J.: So, if you have your copy of Batman ready, go ahead and cue it up. We're going to start it in just a moment.

[1:13:35] Olaf: And if you don't have it, no worries! Just enjoy our conversation as we dive into this movie.

[1:14:05] J.J.: Alright, let's get started. On the count of three, we'll hit play. One, two, three!

[1:14:35] Olaf: Here we go! The opening credits are so memorable. I love the music by Danny Elfman.

[1:15:05] J.J.: Absolutely! The score really sets the tone for the entire film. It's dark and mysterious, just like Batman himself.

[1:15:36] Olaf: And the visuals are stunning. The Gotham City design is so unique and atmospheric.

[1:15:50] J.J.: Right? It really captures that comic book feel while still being grounded in a gritty reality.

[1:16:06] Olaf: And let's not forget about Michael Keaton as Batman. He brought such a different energy to the character.

[1:16:20] J.J.: For sure! His portrayal is iconic. It's hard to imagine anyone else in that role.

[1:16:35] Olaf: And Jack Nicholson as the Joker is just legendary. His performance is both hilarious and terrifying.

[1:16:50] J.J.: He really steals the show. The way he embodies the character is unforgettable.

[1:17:05] Olaf: I love how the film balances humor and darkness. It makes for such an engaging watch.

[1:17:35] J.J.: Exactly! It's a perfect blend that keeps you on your toes.

[1:18:05] Olaf: And the production design is top-notch. Every scene feels meticulously crafted.

[1:18:35] J.J.: You can tell a lot of care went into making this film. It really shows.

[1:19:05] Olaf: And the action sequences are so well done. They still hold up today.

[1:19:35] J.J.: Definitely! The Batmobile chase is a standout moment for me.

[1:20:06] Olaf: Oh, for sure! It's such an iconic scene. The Batmobile is a character in itself.

[1:20:21] J.J.: Agreed! It's one of the coolest vehicles in movie history.

[1:20:36] Olaf: And the way it transforms is just mind-blowing.

[1:20:50] J.J.: I know, right? It adds to the mystique of Batman as a character.

[1:21:06] Olaf: And the cinematography is fantastic. The use of shadows really enhances the mood.

[1:21:18] J.J.: It really does! It creates a sense of tension and suspense throughout the film.

[1:21:35] Olaf: And the dialogue is sharp and memorable. There are so many quotable lines.

[1:22:05] J.J.: Absolutely! It's a film that has left a lasting impact on pop culture.

[1:22:35] Olaf: And it's interesting to see how it influenced later superhero films.

[1:23:05] J.J.: For sure! It paved the way for a whole new era of comic book adaptations.

[1:23:35] Olaf: And it's still relevant today. People are still discovering and enjoying it.

[1:24:05] J.J.: That's the beauty of a classic like this. It stands the test of time.

[1:24:35] Olaf: And we're lucky to be able to experience it together.

[1:25:05] J.J.: Definitely! It's always more fun to watch a movie with someone who appreciates it.

[1:25:17] Olaf: And I can't wait to hear what you think of the ending!

[1:25:27] J.J.: Oh, it's a classic twist! I love how it wraps up the story.

[1:25:39] Olaf: Me too! It leaves you wanting more, which is what a good movie should do.

[1:25:49] J.J.: Exactly! And I think that's a perfect note to end our discussion on.

[1:26:01] Olaf: Agreed! Thanks for joining us for this special rewatch of Batman.

[1:26:11] J.J.: Be sure to subscribe and follow us on social media for more movie discussions!

[1:26:23] Olaf: Until next time, keep watching those films!

[1:26:30] J.J.: Where that or he's hoping that whatever it is that he's going to put on to protect him is going to stop the bullet, like the bullet's not going to go through this, um, well, you know, makeup tray. I mean, he's just lucky that the Joker used this tiny little gun and that he shot him right there, yeah, and not in the head. I gotta understand this. Oh, but this again, where you get, he comes out now, Keaton, another rooster in the hen house. And again, this whole scene where you get to see Keaton play all of his stuff, he gets to do a bunch of different things that he doesn't normally get to do. Take any part of the movie from out thy heart, um, Bruce Wayne, esp. Yeah, and he's just so, I like that he's telling Bob and Laurence to calm down, but Laurence has just been standing there with the boombox like, "What?

I'm good." But he's like, "I know who you are," and he's just trying to talk to him, so like calm, irrational. He's trying to be so rational with him, sort of, because he does like, oh, he pokes the bear. He does poke the bear right here. It wasn't until later where that he, "You want to get nuts?" Yeah, it isn't so, "Let's get nuts." But he doesn't start like that, no, you know. Um, he's like, "I know who you are." He's like, "Well," he starts explaining. I think he's trying to talk about himself having a bad temper. Oh yeah, when he was a kid, yeah, yeah, and Jack's like, "I like him already." Oh yeah, he's like, "I knew this kid one time," and yeah, yeah, real bad because he's, well, he's talking about Jack as a kid, right?

I knew this guy named Jack. I don't know, I think he might be talking about him. That's, "Let's get," and then you get to see Beetlejuice come out here for the moment. "Tell me something, you ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?" Oh, what a great line. I don't know, I just like something I like to say to all my prey. Yeah, I just like the sound of it. But he shoots him like right where he had, I mean, obviously, we're not gonna kill Bruce Wayne. Clearly, never rub another man's rhubarb. Uh, and then, you know, he said, but I love this last bit because he's so good. It's called the Joker's poem. Oh, okay, oh, right as he's leaving the apartment, you got the Danny Elfman little music playing.

He's like, "I'm only laughing on the outside, my smile is just skin deep, but if you could see inside, I'm really crying. Perhaps you'll join me for a weep." And then he just goes, "That's nicely done, by the way. Very nice." Thank you. Uh, he did that from memory, everybody, by the way. He didn't read that. We're not, we're not, oh, and on the other side, I have no script. We are not watching this with subtitles either, so good because I am not one of those people. Well, sometimes I have to be because, yeah, yeah, yeah, why not? So it's such a thing that is taking the world by storm. It's because it drives me nuts. We talk about mixing things. I mean, that is a very large, uh, bulletproof sort of, oh, it had to have left a bruise.

It did not even look like he was wearing it though. You didn't see any sort of square. Let's get out of here. He's wearing the baggy, like you said, he wears the baggy stuff so that the bullets don't, his trench coat, not his dress shirt, whatever. It's not like he had his poking holes in your theory. It's not like he had his suit jacket buttoned up either. I mean, okay, come on.

[1:30:30] J.J.: There's, uh, Arliss as you are back, yeah, and I guess there's a, I kind of like the fact that he's not, he does disappear because he, his character, well, apparently he's been doing all the research for Vicky on Bruce Wayne, which isn't totally surprising. She's not a researcher, she's a photographer. Well, that's pictures. That's, she's not an investigative reporter, she's an investigative journalist. They're supposed to be teaming up. She's supposed to be taking the photos, right? Your words, my pictures, your words. He's doing all the work. He's doing a lot of the, uh, you know, heavy lifting. Well, I, okay, that's not fair. She was taking photos. They, she just got roofied and the photos were taken, right?

Exactly. Um, oh, so now we're going to finally get into, for those, for the, you know, casual Batman fan who is not aware of the origin story, we're going to get that here. What? Okay, first of all, another thing that caused a huge uproar, there's like three things in this movie that cause an enormous uproar. One, that they cast Michael Keaton in the first place. Now granted, everybody changed their tune after they saw the movie and they were like, "He's amazing." But before the movie, huge uproar, right? Another uproar that they changed the origin story, right, of the Joker being the one who killed his parents. Yeah, now honestly, I didn't bother me. It doesn't bother me. No, it doesn't bother me.

In fact, George Lucas would say it's very poetic. Yeah, now I don't want to compare this to George Lucas because he doesn't always have the best ideas either, right? But, um, that really upset a lot of people, uh, having the Joker kill his parents. And then the other thing that caused a huge uproar, um, that we'll see later on is, uh, Alfred letting Vicky into the Batcave. Yeah, now that I can understand, but the idea here is that she was already there because he let her in. Batman lets her into the Batcave first. So, I mean, she's already been there, but she doesn't know how to get there. She understands he's not driving the car in like, "Hey, I just, I was out running some errands." I understand, and we'll get back to that in a second, but, and she certainly didn't know how she left there.

I love this scene where Joker interrupts the news conference and they're, oh, the way it's not where they're looking, Harvey and everybody is looking to the left, yeah, like they can see the Joker. They can't see the Joker. Why are they? But they're all like profile looking at the other TV screen that we can see that they can't see. And the televised, uh, bit is also being put on the radio, right? Because you got the construction workers and bikers listening, and then they start talking to the TV screen like, like they can see each other, like, "What? What's he doing? What's the mayor? Look who's the..." I love that one. "Who's he talking to?" The Joker just pushes the other, but that's like a Tim Burton.

I know, I just thought it was, I've always thought that was funny where they all turn around. He's like, "I've taken off my mask," and he's like, "And where's the Batman?" Old showdown. Yeah, um, I'm gonna dump a bunch of money going back to Alfred letting Vicky into the Batcave. I can understand people going, "What are you doing? She doesn't know that they're the same person. She doesn't know, you know, that where it is." Well, this is about to happen because right, he's pausing it now and we're gonna go and he's gonna have a flashback. We're gonna get to see, looks at, you know, the files on Jack Napier and his parents, right? And this happens because of what was said at Vicky's apartment, yeah.

So he's looking at the Wayne murder and yeah, we're gonna get, we need to, I think it's a great flashback. And they wanted Adam West as Thomas Wayne originally. Um, they wanted Adam West and I believe, I'm trying to remember who, um, they wanted for Martha, but it was, they wanted Adam West to play, um, and Julie Newmar. They wanted Adam West and Julie Newmar to play Martha and Thomas Wayne for the flashback. But I mean, I don't blame them for saying no. They were concerned that they would wreck, it would be a distraction. It would be a distraction. They don't have any speaking line in it. It's, yeah, no, I agree. It's kind of a, it would have thrown away. It would have, it would have been just some sort of like unnecessary fan service, yeah, for no reason.

Like, no, in the shot where they come out of the theater like that, and it was Adam West, that would have taken me out of it. Well, sure, because the only thing that you know is Adam West. So then you would be like, well, is he, what? No, he's clearly not Bruce Wayne. Oh, he's, uh, and then you're, you're right, you lose the weight of what this is supposed to mean, yeah, not only for Bruce Wayne to remember, to go back and remember it for the audience. Like, honestly, the only person in this that I don't like is the kid. I'm like, you could have got a better kid, I think. But the guy they got to play young Jack looks great, spot on. Yeah, like fantastic. Totally by this guy. I mean, it could have been Jack, you know, at the time they would, this has been something where they CGI made, they would have made Jack Nicholson younger.

Like, honestly, the guy that they got to play young Jack would have made a great Joker if, yeah, this was like a different time and, right, it wasn't Jack Nicholson. Yeah, because when he comes out of the shadows, yeah, you see, if you put all the white makeup on him and he's got the Nicholson smile and the forehead, like the whole thing, like, look at that. I mean, this guy is, yeah, he would have been a good ringer Joker in general. Yeah, he was, I'm so, I don't know who this guy is. I never even thought to look, but he looks great. "See you around, kid." Yeah, yeah, he does. He looks great. Um, but again, so yeah, we get that. Well, at what point then Vicky's gonna find out that Batman is Bruce Wayne?

Hey, Vicky, they all demand. But up to this point, Alfred has been trying to be that voice of reason, that conscience on your shoulder toward, always kind of is, I think ultimately even in the comics, like Alfred is like, "Hey, maybe hang up the cape. I want you to have a happy life." Right, but I mean about the relationship and how he's dealing with it or not dealing with it, you know? Yeah, well, he wants, yeah, he knows that he likes her, so he wants them to be together. This is totally way random and way off the wall, but it's all, and it's so classic, uh, late 80s, but it's always sort of made me laugh and bother me that he's wearing blue jeans tucked in with this black turtleneck. He's got these blue jeans.

I'm like, "He's off duty at the moment. Can he not be comfortable?" But I mean, blue jeans, like, why not? You didn't like blue jeans? I just, it seems very, with the shirt, it's very late. I got, I got, I'm going down the back. I gotta, I gotta get dressed. It just reminds me of like dressed up. It just reminds me of like Jerry Seinfeld episodes where he's wearing blue jeans and a tucked in. Well, I mean, they have a similar look right now, and so it just, every time I see it, I'm like, "Okay." I mean, again, it's so minor, it's so silly, but it always catches my eye. Well, I love this bit because it's so dramatic where she's like, "I just, I just need to know, is this gonna work?" Oh, I know.

He's like, "I hope so, but he's out there right now. I gotta go to work. I gotta go to work. I don't have time." And then you got the vault opening up in the suit with the one suit. He only has one, I guess, at the moment for this movie, right? He only has one because the next movie, they've changed the design of the suit. It's more, um, it looks more mechanical. It, not like the molded muscles. Yeah, yeah. Oh, this bit, awesome. The Batmobile attacks Axis Chemicals. Yeah, you get the guns with the, and yeah, with the door, and he goes right to the door. This was in the trailer too, if I'm not mistaken. I thought, "Oh, this is so cool." It looks amazing where he takes it, and the whole time you think Batman's in the car, right?

No, it just looks cool. And then, you know, "Hey guys, gather around, go to the shields." And these guys just like shoot at the car. Like, you would think after one or two shots, plus they're really close, like they're not worried about ricochet. No, you think one or two shots, boom. If they're not, if it's not penetrating the shields, save your bullets. You got six shooters. Miller's driving through the flames. I cannot get enough of the Batmobile. It looks so good. The music is so big at this moment. It's so good. Yeah, it's in fact, it's called "Charge of the Bat." Is that the music, the score track? Yeah, the track. Nice. And then this is when we find out Batman wasn't even in it the whole time.

Yeah, I'm not going in that mess. I don't need to be in there. That's, uh, yeah, we're here. We're like the last stretch of this movie here. Yeah, we're going into the final act here. He's got his own Joker copter, and now we got Prince back, and he's got the music videos. Trust, dude. Oh, yeah. Who you gonna trust? Who you gonna? Money, money, money, money, money, money, money.

[1:40:56] J.J.: This is great, and he's got the big throne. I love that trench coat, too. That purple, the purple trench coat that the Joker's wearing. I love it. Well, I that with the hat, yeah.

[1:41:06] Olaf: It's a great look. It's a great look that... float the, not the float, the balloon, those very large moon is a little... but there's several of them.

[1:41:17] J.J.: Well, what I would have thought that they would have done is tried to make, 'cause like the pin that Bob is wearing and like everything else that's branded, it would have been cool to have the balloon also look like that. I guess that would have been kind of cool, but it's very Tim Burton.

[1:41:32] Olaf: No, I... there's... I know you're like over here gonna defend everything about him, so one thing that a lot of people complain about with Tim Burton, and I think it goes into multiple movies, but definitely Batman, Batman Returns, is his inability to get crowds.

[1:41:49] J.J.: Yeah, he doesn't have any.

[1:41:51] Olaf: There's more people in this movie than in Batman Returns.

[1:41:58] J.J.: Yeah, like all the crowd scenes in Batman Returns, there's like hardly any. There's like 20 people.

[1:42:04] Olaf: There's not that many, no, not for the two... well, not for... we're gonna be... I'm gonna be like, that's the most dumping a bunch of money and like eight people show up or, you know, like a 50 p.m. Well, when they first show the float coming around the corner, nobody... there's like hardly anybody.

[1:42:21] J.J.: Well, this is... that's an interesting thing you mentioned because he went on the news and on the radio and said, "At this time, on this day, I'm gonna be dumping loads of money," and maybe you don't believe, and maybe I'm not gonna show up for that.

[1:42:34] Olaf: Oh, you know, everyone's showing up, but nobody showed up for it until they came around the corner.

[1:42:38] J.J.: Yeah, and in a deleted scene, you find out that the money he's throwing out is fake. It has his face on it.

[1:42:43] Olaf: Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. And it's in the script, Knox's character is supposed to die, yes, in the script because obviously his character is not in any of the comic books. They created his character for the movie.

[1:42:57] J.J.: Yeah, but his character was supposed to die in the script.

[1:43:01] Olaf: Oh, the bad way, the Batwing has shown up. Danny Elfman's got the music blaring. Oh gosh, I'm just like, it's just so cool.

[1:43:10] J.J.: Do they explain why he's in the Batwing, or is it just an excuse to show the Batwing? Because we just saw him in the car, and it's not like the car... maybe the car... cool? No, the car's not gonna be able to tow the... oh, that's what it is. Okay, that's right, the balloons of gas. He's like, "Well, how else am I gonna get...?"

[1:43:27] Olaf: No, no, I need the Batwing, you're right. And I mean, come on, it's the Batwing. It's so great. Cool, I've got the Lego, but we do... you do, he's hanging up on the wall over there.

[1:43:40] J.J.: Yeah, who you gonna trust, money? And where is the Batman?

[1:43:47] Olaf: Oh, he's at home washing his tights.

[1:43:54] J.J.: Oh, haven't even gotten to that part yet. No, but I love those jackets that they're wearing. They got the cards on the sleeves that the henchmen and the Joker logo on the... yeah, yes. Yeah, it looks great.

[1:44:06] Olaf: Yeah, it looks great. And it was such a good job too of... and again, this was Tim Burton doing this on purpose because it's such a huge overcorrection in the later non-Burton films of just splashes of color.

[1:44:17] J.J.: Oh, yeah, we don't need the comic book-y over-the-top colors, but just like little things like the remote control he has to... character, yeah, and then he's like... I guess a little fake that comes the part where I relieve you the little people of your failed and useless lives.

[1:44:39] Olaf: But as my plastic surgeon always said, "If you got to go, go with a smile." And now the gas is coming out.

[1:44:44] J.J.: Yeah, and that's zoom. I feel like that lens is not big enough to get that. I mean, it's a kind of a decent lens to get all the way up there. And again, this is another thing, and again, this is just me being super, super overly picky, but when people are now trying to use money as a gas mask, which clearly isn't gonna work, Knox goes into his trunk.

[1:45:07] Olaf: I like the karate chop the trunk, but then he's got this little mess. Just take a couple of seconds to put the strap over. Take your hat off, put the strap over so you don't have to hold the mask with your hand. You can use now two hands in a hurry.

[1:45:19] J.J.: I'm just saying you can use two hands to swat people away with your stick, and why is he trying to hit the goons that are being carried away by the balloons? At least you could put the strap over the mask. Come on.

[1:45:35] Olaf: Some of these shots fly by, I know, and I love some of these shots too because even now, and I'm trying to be very objective, it doesn't look fake.

[1:45:44] J.J.: You know, are you like up CGI or like because of the way that everyone that's watching along with us right now, and when you said that, it's like, yes, it looks very fake, and it does. I mean, they use a lot of miniatures for this bit, and but they do a really good job with them, right?

[1:46:04] Olaf: But it's not like when you're seeing other like sci-fi movies of the time when the ship's flying, you're like...

[1:46:10] J.J.: No, but for here, there's just...

[1:46:14] Olaf: Wing miniature that they are using. They have a Batman in the cockpit that his head rotates.

[1:46:22] J.J.: Oh, really? It has moving parts on it to add to the real, and it clearly Knox must be out of the smoke because he's not affected by it anymore.

[1:46:29] Olaf: Yeah, and what cracks me up is he gets thrown into what seems to be a bag of trash bags full of feathers.

[1:46:39] J.J.: Feathers, and that knocks him unconscious.

[1:46:46] Olaf: Well, he's a reporter. He's not built for this stuff, you know.

[1:46:52] J.J.: So here comes the giant claw. This Batwing is so cool.

[1:46:56] Olaf: No, the design of it was... it was cool and it made sense in terms of that, and I don't remember seeing that many balloons in the parade. I saw the crying baby and I saw the clown, my balloons, and then like all of a sudden he's got like 18 balloons he's trying to get up to the space.

[1:47:10] J.J.: Just clears, yeah, just clears a cathedral. He stole my balloons.

[1:47:16] Olaf: There they go, why didn't anybody tell me he's got one of those things?

[1:47:23] J.J.: Now as we know...

[1:47:26] Olaf: And then they're gonna pop, and then whatever it is that's in them is going to come back down into the atmosphere by the gas.

[1:47:32] J.J.: Oh big, really? Is that... is that... is that what we're supposed to... okay, I'm sorry, I forgot I was with you know, I get it now. I'm not them trying to poke holes, but they make it a little easy sometimes. I mean, even Superman threw the nuclear weapons.

[1:47:50] Olaf: He's gonna kill Bob. I know, I don't know why this happens. He's man. I didn't tell him he had one of those things.

[1:48:00] J.J.: I'm gonna need a minute. I do love that... clear the streets. I can't believe you people are still alive. You should all be dead by now. Here we go.

[1:48:11] Olaf: Oh, the classic I can I wing into the moonshot? Boom.

[1:48:17] J.J.: So great that, yeah. Yeah, there's awesome. It's like... they later changed the logo of the bat, you know, for subsequent films.

[1:48:32] Olaf: Well, but Burton was the only one that did it like... yeah, it was normal. Anyway, his was... I mean, so great. Now he's got all these missiles, all of these in the Gatlin, you know, gun, and he still misses.

[1:48:46] J.J.: Yeah, ah, come on, and he's got the... the x-wing target.

[1:48:52] Olaf: And like how do you miss him? I mean, Jack is right there.

[1:48:59] J.J.: Luke turned off his targeting computer and hit the Death Star.

[1:49:05] Olaf: Yeah, in a very small space.

[1:49:09] J.J.: Yeah, look at this. I mean, this to me makes Batman look really bad.

[1:49:12] Olaf: Really? No, you're gonna go through all of this, you're gonna show me all... look at all the guys he does kill, and you're gonna do that and you're still gonna miss him.

[1:49:18] J.J.: No, see, come on. I mean, you're throwing the whole arsenal at him and you miss him. It looks great. It does.

[1:49:31] Olaf: And then he pulls out... I love this. It just looks so funny, and he hits him, and he hits him with one bullet. He hits... come on, it's great. I just loved Jack's acting with the gun.

[1:49:49] J.J.: Yeah, that point, it's a Smith and Wesson 15-3 with a custom 21-inch barrel that gun.

[1:49:57] Olaf: Now here's where the miniatures look pretty good.

[1:50:03] J.J.: Oh, yeah.

[1:50:08] Olaf: I mean, except for there. Yeah, it's hard. It is hard to make fire look real with miniatures.

[1:50:18] J.J.: Yeah, you have to do it in a specific way.

[1:50:24] Olaf: Yeah, and then, you know, where did he go? He's not in the...

[1:50:27] J.J.: I know, is he already like...

[1:50:28] Olaf: Yes, the other thing. Where does he go?

[1:50:35] J.J.: Well, it's... because he's like... it's suggested that he's thrown out and he's underneath the wreckage. I don't know about that, but okay, I mean sure he's about... I'll take when you see him again, he's under the wreckage.

[1:50:39] Olaf: He's under the barrel. The Joker still has the barrel like fully extended.

[1:50:49] J.J.: And when he's like, "Hey, pick me up at the top of the bell tower," and...

[1:50:58] Olaf: Do it in... what do you say, five minutes? Something like that?

[1:51:07] J.J.: Yeah, better make it ten.

[1:51:11] Olaf: Yeah, I mean, I know he's under the wreckage, but yeah, see...

[1:51:16] J.J.: But he lives like one piece. I want to... I mean, she clearly went up there, might have been other pieces. You didn't see the angle.

[1:51:20] Olaf: You are such a defender of everything in this. Why do you hate this movie?

[1:51:26] J.J.: Come on, I'm just trying to be a little objective. I love this movie, but there are certain things... I mean, I'm not... it's not turning me off from the film, and I'm like, come on, like certain things.

[1:51:32] Olaf: Okay, what problem do you have with the pews falling over?

[1:51:39] J.J.: They haven't fallen over yet. They're about to.

[1:51:44] Olaf: I know. Oh, do you have a problem with the wood stairs?

[1:51:52] J.J.: No, I don't know. There's certain... I'm just saying things that need to...

[1:51:57] Olaf: Wait a minute, this seems to be a little over the top, the pews falling, if it's a little unnecessary except to say, "Oh, he's in the building, he's here."

[1:52:06] J.J.: I get it, look, so you did have a problem with the pews falling over.

[1:52:12] Olaf: Well, I wouldn't have... no, I wouldn't have said anything, but you egged me to comment on it, so I felt sure.

[1:52:20] J.J.: It is now here's the... here's what I will say. He doesn't need to climb up the stairs. Batman does not need to do this. He has gear that could get him at least to their level, but no, we need to see the shoe fall. We need to see how far they've already walked because that's pretty impressive.

[1:52:40] Olaf: Well, maybe he only has one more use of the grapple gun.

[1:52:46] J.J.: Wow, wow, okay. Well, maybe you're right. Maybe also he knows that the Joker's got a hand cannon right now, so he kind of makes himself an easy target just by sailing up.

[1:53:00] Olaf: I suppose, and I get... I mean, look, I'm sorry that you hate this movie. I'm sorry that it offends you in ways that I never...

[1:53:10] J.J.: This movie clearly does not offend me like other movies do because there's some other movies...

[1:53:16] Olaf: But next time we'll watch your favorite movie, Batman and Robin.

[1:53:22] J.J.: Now I was about to ask you, I would how they would rank this clearly is... I think most like anybody's got to be number one.

[1:53:29] Olaf: This is number one for sure.

[1:53:33] J.J.: Yeah, I think they kind of go in that order too. I think they sort of got progressively...

[1:53:37] Olaf: Mean one. I think they would... I don't think anybody's ranking three above two, although some people might.

[1:53:42] J.J.: There are people who prefer Batman Forever over Batman Returns, and I... yeah, I know.

[1:53:49] Olaf: There's the Joel Schumacher Batmans are terrible.

[1:53:53] J.J.: That's a different for another day.

[1:53:57] Olaf: Well, that's for another day.

[1:53:57] J.J.: Yeah, maybe this is why he didn't use his grapple because he probably would have grappled it onto the bell and then that would have been... he would have been history.

[1:54:03] Olaf: Look at that.

[1:54:09] J.J.: Yeah, so he knew.

[1:54:09] Olaf: Yeah, you know his investigative powers. See, you gotta give it a second.

[1:54:14] J.J.: Yeah, okay, I get it. Don't just jump to I hate this man.

[1:54:20] Olaf: Oh, well, I mean again, I just... so you're the one who's saying that I do like that Commissioner Gordon's... it's like, "Well, you got guys, we're... oh, there's the other shoe."

[1:54:27] J.J.: Is that the other shoe? I forgot she lost.

[1:54:34] Olaf: Yeah, I'm the only one trying to move the bell and you thinking, "Oh, I'm sorry guys, I tried. Let's go around. Let's go. We're done. We're out of here."

[1:54:37] J.J.: Yeah, no, I do like... there are better Commissioner Gordons out there, but I do that in this one, he's very more like in charge.

[1:54:45] Olaf: Yeah, whereas after... once Schumacher takes over, he's a clown.

[1:54:51] J.J.: Yeah, well, yeah, bliss clown. Yeah, and I'd never liked that. I'm like, Gordon was a very good guy, but he's a very bad guy.

[1:55:02] Olaf: Yeah, and I'd never liked that. I'm like, Gordon was never...

[1:55:07] J.J.: No, no, no, he wasn't, but again, it was the overcorrection of comic book-y and everything of that nature.

[1:55:15] Olaf: Appears I would have a bet in my bill free.

[1:55:19] J.J.: This is a cool...

[1:55:21] JJ Gonzalez: Last sort of piece because you do get to see the way the light they the way and we've said it before like the way they lit his face. Let his eyes. Oh, yeah Keaton's eyes in that mask. Yeah. Where did this guy come from? Oh the music playing is called waltz to the death and it's just but where are these guys coming? From where these guys in the chopper like were they up there? They we didn't see them hanging out the whole time. Okay, this was the master plan. Is this sort of a foreshadowing the last dance of Mary Jane? Cuz Kim Basinger is in that video cuz this very last dance with Mary Jane when he's dancing with her like that I guess but again this came out before when the guy jumps through.

Lawrence is that Lawrence? That was Lawrence? I didn't recognize him without the box this guy has no name, but he just beats the hell out of Batman. He does. He takes that kick like nothing. He does it. Oh, it just looks so is this the thing though? Isn't there another bell up here? Yeah, this guy gets it with the bell. Yeah. Yeah, I like how they he feels like he still needs to dance with her during all of this. Well, yeah, he's the Joker. Yeah, he's having a great time cuz he's just waiting for his goons to finish him off. This is yeah, there's the other there's the other bell right there. Yeah. Is something wrong with Vicki? Is she just tired or did he drug her? Cuz she just looks like exhausted.

I know she don't climb up those stairs. She wasn't the only one who called held at gun mine, but she like she doesn't want to be here she I know but she looks like he are you like well the show must go on. Let's do this five six, seven eight fight something. Give me something you were fought. You photograph the corto Maltese. You've been in situations.

[1:57:32] Olaf Adsit: Whoever who's Batman stuntman who's a stunt guy on this? This guy's great. No, he does do a great job. Yeah, but I it's crazy how much of an ass-kicking he gets. Oh yeah, this guy is I know they didn't give this guy a name. This guy took full advantage of what he was told to do. I tell you what the guy in the suit the Batman suit is able to move around. So yeah with the rolling and everything. Is do you think did they build a separate suit for him? Oh, absolutely. Oh, there were several suits. It's cool like by gonna dong. Yeah, that would have killed him right there just getting hit when the head with the oh yeah, it would have hurt but it wouldn't killed him I mean the falling would fall definitely that that bit definitely, right?

And here we are now. She's feeling like now she's like, okay. No, she's back. She's still back tired. I don't want to do this. Yeah, JJ's like I expect more from you. Well, she's gonna start doesn't she start, you know antagonizing him a little bit here? No, she's not. Yeah, she starts to feed into it. That's she feeds distracting right because she sees she's about to see Batman. She sees Batman in the band the back. So she's like, oh, okay. Yeah, she starts kissing his like suit. Yeah, I love it. I'm like picking the felt out of the jacket. I love it. She sees them here. Yeah, like, okay. Okay. Yeah, he's still alive or still good. I'm smart. I love but she's like just gives him little pecks. I think she calls him. Mr. Joker. She picks the I love her she's like the lint.

[1:59:14] JJ Gonzalez: He's just like, oh, okay. She's speaking. She's coming around sweet words to me. Yeah, he's coming around. She's like and purple. Oh, I love purple right there, yeah. Excuse me, you ever dance with the devil the pillion. Yeah, which is so Keaton, it's not like yeah, you know, I mean you wouldn't hit a guy with glasses would you? You it is you made me yeah. Remember? Yeah, you made me first. Yeah. Well, what are you talking about? and don't that was not easy to forget no thing. I didn't try I don't understand I mean I can understand why people don't didn't like the changing of the origin story, but they did such a good job here I wish you you kind of wish they had a little bit more of a moment but I thought they did a really good job here.

I never had a problem. I didn't either like in this world I bought it. Yeah. Yeah, I did too like I I've always liked the the Joe cool storyline in the comics, that's great and that they're unrelated, but I never had an issue with it in this movie. Yeah. Yeah. No, I didn't either and they kind of did something similar in Batman mask of the phantasm like the Joker didn't kill his parents, right, but he shows up as a younger version of himself as a gangster so he's still like within that right earlier history.

[2:01:02] Olaf Adsit: So you're trying to tell me that? Batman saved his last repelling for this moment right here because he wasn't sure because he only had one left possibly he's about to shoot something else not the grapple the grapple uses later we had a hand when they fall give you a hand give them the fake hand, yeah and he looks at the gargoyle, what are you laughing at? Yeah, this was such a cool scene. Yeah, I mean it's kind of it has its movie tropes of like the heroes dangling oh sure villains gonna screw up, but I mean you kind of buy it, but are they tropes? Because because you're trying to think to lose we've we've sort of had this thought as we've been talking through the movie we're certain things like that hanging from that that sort of trope already been overdone or do you feel like sure it's been I mean I know yeah.

[2:02:10] JJ Gonzalez: It's that same idea of the bad guy giving away everything necessarily, it's just it's that same idea though like we're bad guys give away my master plan because I've got you right where I want you and then well I mean, he's literally like he was just waiting for his ride. Oh yeah, so now he's got his ride and he's like I'll see you later. Hi. He's not even gonna like try and like kick him off now. He's like just I'm so do you feel that? Were you bummed or you kind of like oh, man he died would you rather he live like they do in in in Dark Knight unfortunately because of real circumstances they weren't able to bring him back but I mean in the comics the villains always live so that they can come back again later and in movies it's always that is a trope the villain always dies at the end especially in comic book movie right, but I think especially back then before franchises were really a thing they don't know if they're gonna if this will be successful if they're gonna make another well he's a superman where I just have to like plan for we look at Superman they like stayed alive, but they were also shooting two movies at the same time they were shooting two movies at the same time through the second movie too, but also Superman was so wholesome like they could get away with Batman killing even though that's like his one rule is right well and he doesn't technically kill the Joker here. I mean yes, he does.

[2:03:40] Olaf Adsit: No, he doesn't. Yes, he does he kills so many people in this movie the helicopter could have landed if it wanted to well it could have landed okay, so you're gonna blame the Joker for hiring idiots that fly a helicopter that aren't paying attention well, that's on him. That's not I'm you're not gonna blame the Batman for shooting a bolo around his leg and it's either that or let him get away to for another day. I suppose so like when this scene happened here, and there was a part of me that that thought I wonder if he's still like if this is really him like if he's a lot you know I mean oh clearly not clearly, but and the laugh is not coming from him no, no, I know that cuz if he's a dig it out of the pocket the Commissioner finally I just want to make sure well they're all like why is he laughing right yeah, he's dead.

[2:04:37] JJ Gonzalez: So you were okay with the death of the Joker is my question or were you are you kind of like it would have been cool I mean, I just I just accepted it for what it was because you know again franchises weren't a big thing sequels weren't a big thing not the yeah, not yeah, I mean they weren't like it's gonna obviously be a sequel no no because when they made this again, they didn't know if it was no they didn't it was a huge gamble I mean Jack Nicholson will tell you in interviews that he was like we got something special. This is gonna be big oh yeah he took it back into the movie. Yeah but he perceived the percentage of the gross yeah but even even if they had kept him alive, I don't know if Jack would have come back right yeah, I think he would have been like I'm good.

I'm good, and I agree I don't think he would have done either he made 60 million dollars on this movie Jack. Yeah in 89 yeah, that's a ton. That's a lot now. Yeah, they the gross adjusted was like it'd be like a hundred and forty five million yeah, so.

[2:05:37] Olaf Adsit: This is like our what third time seeing Billy D is Harvey no this is like his fit. No. He's this is I was looking maybe fourth time fifth or sixth time yeah you're doing random stuff. He's not once lost his but again temper that would have bothered me because it was just being established as yeah, but then you get that last shot of the bat signal the first time we see the bat signal it's so cool. It's so cool, but what is even better is the very end which we're about to see like there's Alfred Alvord always there always ready and waiting yeah, you got the champagne all right. I love that car, too. It's a it looks like a Rolls but it's not like a side door. Yeah, you and it's not your typical like limo it's just like sophisticated rich people like old-timey limo which again goes back to we don't know what time period is obviously it's modern-day, but not the car but now you've you've got we're about to see Batman one more time with the Danny Elfman score. Oh yeah closing it out.

[2:06:52] JJ Gonzalez: And just it builds and builds and builds it's a great shot and you get all the way up to the top of this building and you got the the low bat signal. You've got Batman. Yeah, no, it's a great walking out of what a way to what a way to end the movie. Yeah, no idea I agree because like the Batmobile and the Batcave now you're getting like okay it's not an origin because he was already established as Batman, but now we've got the bat signal now and now in the black yeah and we go right into credits yeah, and you're walking out of theater here. You're pumped. You're getting in line to see it. You were psyched no doubt well when the ticket price is $2 you better believe him to go see it again I mean that was back in the day when you know there's no internet, so it's all of course you're going right back into going right back yeah that happened all the time with movies like this and Star Wars and stuff yeah, soon as it finished you were right back in line that was probably wrapped around the the building. Oh, yeah.

[2:08:05] Olaf Adsit: This was fun. I mean again everybody I love this movie as well not as much as Olaf does of course, but it's it's a classic it still holds up I mean as critical as I was overall this movie holds up way better than a lot of movies. I came out e Blick was the young Jack Napier Hugo e Blick with a name like that, and he still got that role yeah.

[2:08:27] JJ Gonzalez: Well guys that brings us to a close on our sit down and watch of Batman 1989 with Michael Keaton Jack Nicholson Kim Basinger directed by Tim Burton and I tell you what it's special to watch but there was nothing more fun than being able to sit here with you on the couch watching this together. Yeah, this was definitely a lot of fun. Hopefully we can do more of these sort of in-person episodes. I think we I'm sure we will we probably won't do a lot of these sit and watch the whole movie kind of know episodes but we hope you enjoyed it, and if you like more of these let us know and we'll we'll do that, but until then to be continued.

[2:09:13] Johnny Clay: Back to the movie theater is hosted by JJ Gonzalez and Olaf Adsit produced by me Johnny Clay JJ Gonzalez and Olaf Adsit theme song incidental music by the dimes. Follow us on Instagram and tick-tock at back to the movie theater and find us on YouTube and back to the movie theater with JJ and Olaf.